Was Faith a Gift?

Call

Everyone who has not heard the message the words of life and death , or have not believed in Jesus will face condemnation. That is why we need to make the most effectually call to God that the harvast is plenty, but the workers are few, please send out more workers.

If the Holy Spirit doesn't go out and we are His temple, no one will be saved without the message and the words of life and death for those who do not believe.

That is why it is “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

Romans 10 is a good chapter

 

freeatlast,

I am SO with you faith and repentance are most assuredly not "works", but they are required components of this marvelous salvation granted by our God. If that makes me a "synergist", so be it. God will not save me without them, (even though he could) he will not.

 

I can tell you that you are not going to convince me of your position. I understand that the scripture teaches the Absolut sovereignty of God. I also understand that scripture teaches that man can reject the sovereignty of God. In my limited mind I also understand that I do not understand how that can be, but I accept both. I do not and will not stand on one side of the issue or the other when both are in scripture.
Perhaps my understanding is not correct as to how they both work in unison, but the fact is they do.
Just about every major theological doctrine in scripture has duel possibilities. Christ is man and Christ is God. As a man Christ had a beginning and never had a beginning as God. Jesus is equal with God but the Father is greater then the Son.
I absolutely reject one side or the other in any of these as being absolute in itself so as to exclude an equal truth of the opposite side. I do however accept both sides of each example as being 100% true and yet i have not a clue how it can be. I may set to explain in my limited ability, but even in that, if incorrect in the explanation, the two are still true.
The same with the calling of God unto salvation. Two differing positions given in scripture seeming to oppose each other and yet they are in harmony because God is not divided.
I will say that I do not believe for a minute that He calls anyone who cannot obey His calling. Who so ever calls will be saved. Cannot is not an issue but them not calling is.

 

:applause: Thank you for the heartfelt spiritual and intellectual honesty.

 

This is very good and correct. The grace that brings salvation that has appeared to all men is God's Word, and in particular the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

If God had not revealed himself to us, we could not possibly believe. This is what Paul showed when he asked;

AND HOW SHALL THEY BELIEVE IN HIM OF WHOM THEY HAVE NOT HEARD?

Paul doesn't say we need to be supernaturally zapped to have the ability to believe here or anywhere else in scripture, but he does say we need to hear it. You cannot possibly believe something you have no knowledge of.

Then Paul says;

SO FAITH COMETH BY HEARING, AND HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD.

Again, no mention of being supernaturally zapped to have faith. No, you simply must hear God's word and decide whether you believe it the truth or not.

But you cannot hear that which is not spoken. So it is God speaking to us in his word that enables us to hear.

We all have abilities (and these are a gift from God), but those abilities are dependent upon God. I have lungs, but I could not breathe if God did not provide air. I have eyes, but I could not see if God did not provide light.

I have the ability to believe, but I could not believe on Jesus unless God revealed him to me through his word.

 

No He did not waste His time at Jerusalem. They could have comne but they did not.
Look at scripture
And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come
Notice the tense? That is choice

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not!

Again, notice the tense? Again choice. He would have accepted them, but they would not accept Him. They made a choice! they left His heart bleeding because of their choice to refuse.
God is not wasting HIS time, we waste His time.

 

It is your doctrine that teaches God wastes his time. Your doctrine teaches that God calls men whom he knows cannot respond. That is not only a waste of time, but it is foolish as well.

 

No, now you are putting words to my post. I said it would be a waste of time IF they could not obey. You said they could not, not me. I clearly said that God does not waste His time, by giving offers that cannot be filled. You disagreed.

 

That's illogical. Absolute Sovereignty cannot be rejected. Either God is FULLY in control of all that happens or he is not. Which is it?

The Word of God is clear. "He is before all things and by him all things consist."

God worketh all things after the counsel of his own will.

There's what we like to believe and think and there's the word of God. At some point we need to choose which one we are going to go with.

There is no need to accept the illogical position that man can reject the Absolute Svoereignty of God since it is not taught anywhere in the Bible.

On the other hand compatabalism is taght.

Joseph told his brothers- "You meant it for evil, God meant it for good."

God meant it. He meant for it to come to pass. He was in complete control of their throwing Joseph in the pit; complete control of them lying to their father; complete control of them selling him into slavery. God meant for every evil deed to take place: plain and simple. But HE meant it for good.

Both are not in Scripture. Show where God is not in complete control over all that man does.

They do not. Show in the Bible where man is able to throw off the rule of God over ANY action man commits.

These are, for the most part, real tensions. Yours is not.

The real tension that comes close to what you are saying is the Sovereignty of God and the RESPONSIBILITY of man.

It does not matter what you say, brother, it is a fact. God commands all men everywhere to repent. Yet he knows all men everywhere will not repent. He has not intention of saving those who will never believe. So God calls people to repent with know intention of saving them knowing what they will do, right?

 

[SIZE=+0]Let me tell you what else is illogical, now I speak as a fool.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]God is 100% man and 100% God. Jesus is God, but He is the Son. There is one God, but the Father is God, Jesus is God, and the Spirit is God. God knows everything, but Jesus said that He did not know everything. Got the point?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]All this is true and all this from human logic is illogical. That is why faith trumps logic for me. If you feel that logic for you must trump faith then that is your choice. I choose faith. God is absolutely sovereign, yet His will can be sinned against. Both are as true as the examples i gave and i accept it all.[/SIZE]

 

Show me the statement. I do not believe that He gave us commands we could not obey. The commands came with promises, but none of them included salvation.
I tell a little story to show the irrational belief that God gives commands we cannot keep and it goes like this;
There once was a man who had a son. The child was born with severe physical limitations. He could not move from the neck down. His young years were spent with his mother and father caring to his every need.
As the child grew he was placed into a wheelchair but still had to have his every need cared for. By the time he grew to be about 12 years old his father came to him and said. son you are now old enough to be accountable, and it is time that you start learning to take care of yourself and have some responsibilities so I am giving you some commands.
You are to feed yourself, clean your room, mow the grass, and take out the trash. If you do not do these things I am going to punish you severely. The young man was shocked and bewildered and began to weep. Then he spoke to his father. Father I have sinned against you and I ask you to please forgive me. The father looked lovingly at his son and forgave him. The son began to praise his father for his great mercy and the father was pleased.
Then I ask a question. Is this father a just and good father. The answer is always no he is unjust for tempting his son with commands he cannot possibly obey. Then he accepts praise that should not be his in the first place.
The parallel towards God is exactly how many of the hardliners promote God when they say that He gave us commands we could not keep. The truth is that we can keep them but because of our willful rebellion and love for sin we do not. God is not unjust and He does not give commands that we cannot keep. Holding that view one also has to hold that sin is not their fault, but it is. It is a choice, always a choice. No one ever disciplins a child for an accedent, but willful rebellion requires disciplin. There has never been and never will be a sin committed that was not willfully and carefully chosen and carried out on the part of the sinner. Not one person alive can honestly name one sin that they ever had to commit.

 

Tell us all which one of the ten is impossible for you to obey? Because if it is impossible that means you practice sin and the scripture teaches that anyone who practices sin is lost.