Was Mary a surrogate or did she contribute her seed to Jesus??

StandingfirminChrist, you seem to be going back to an old heresie form about the 4th Century. It was either called Nestorianism or Monophysitism I'm not sure which one you may want to google them to see what they are. There is nothing new under the sun!

Grace56

 

And yet, all men inherited the sin nature. So if Christ did not inherit the sin nature, although He was man, He was not fully man.

Fully would include the sin nature that all men inherit.

 

1. Are you saying this?
- Divine Nature came from God
- Human Nature came from Mary

Yah, then you may be saying that those 2 natures are separable !

2. You sound like Virgins are not sinners! Check your statement

3. I already illustrated the Genesis 18:1- where God took the human nature to eat, wash feet, walk, and stretch the hands, wrestled with man before His Incarnation. How can you deny that God can take the human nature before He took anything from Mary?

4. Can God not create another, the second Adam?Answer yes or NO.

5. If sinners can give birth to sinless person, why didn't God do that for millions of others? Sinners's children are sinners !
If Jesus was born out of Ovum of Mary, then He would have been a defective sinner. Jesus was a perfect man, perfect and sinnless person.

6. Those are all connected with other parts of the Bible. You are very much obssessed with the notion that the human nature can come only from the Adam's race, which is untrue.

7. These days, people are making Stem Cell research for human embryo and they succeed in making a Human Embryo only with one egg of a woman plus skin cell. Are they making sinless person if they do it with the ovum of a virgin?

8. If anyman was born by man and woman, then she or he becomes a sinner but if anyone is born only by a woman, then she or he is sinnless, is this what you are saying? There may be many sinnless person born in the future when the stem cell research is advanced !

9 Read 1 Tim 2:14 as well. Sin entered thru a woman first. The reason why Adam is mentioned always is because Adam represent the Adam's race.
Man and Woman are equally sinners. If anything was inherited from Mary to Jesus, one cannot say Word became Flesh, and cannot deny that Blood shed at the Cross was inherited from Mary, and the Blood of Jesus cannot be sinnless. This denies the fundamental Truth of Christianity.

 

Monophysitism holds that Christ was partly divine, partly human. I do not believe such nonsense.

Nestorianism holds that Christ was both the son of God and the man Jesus.

Scripture declares Him to be the Son of God born of a virgin.

 

Scripture also declares him to be the Son of man, which refers to his human nature:

Luke 5:23-24 Whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Rise up and walk?
24 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house.
--They knew that only God could forgive sins. Christ was a man--fully man; 100% man; fully man and fully God at the same time, and here is one place where he demonstrated it.

 

I do not doubt that He was man. That is obvious. But Scripture does not say He had the sin nature that all men inherit, so He was not fully man in that respect.

 

1. You try to make the false idea become the Truth by relying on the number of supporters. There are billions of Atheists, and they deny the Virgin Birth. Is it True? The Truth doesn't require the number of its supporters.

The Bible rebukes you here: ( Ex 23:2)
2 Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil; neither shalt thou speak in a cause to decline after many to wrest judgment:


2. Many innate deformation, handicapped weaknesses by born such as Blindness are inherited thru the DNA. None of the people of the world is perfect since the sin had entered the world. How come Jesus could be perfect if He is a product of the sinful human = Mary?

3. Are you saying that the Deity of Jesus came from God and that the human nature of His came from Mary? say yes or No

4. Where is the scripture saying that Jesus carried Mary's DNA?
Where is it clear?
Bible just listed the genealogy of the Surrogate Mother and Step-Father. Why does it list the genealogy of Joseph?

 

The human nature came through or via Mary. The two natures are inseparable as they are to this very day. Even right now Christ sits at the right hand of the throne of God making intercession for us. He still retains His glorified or resurrection body. The nail prints are still in his hands.

My daughter is a virgin, but believe me she is a sinner.
Mary was a sinner. She said: "I rejoice in God my Savior," indicating that she, a sinner, needed a Savior.
At the time of the circumcision of Jesus, it was the same time of the purification of Mary. According to Levitical law (Lev.12), she took two offerings (one of which was a sin offering) and presented it to the priest as a sin offering. Why would she present a sin offering if she was not a sinner? She was. The fact that Mary was a sinner had nothing to do with Christ being sinless. The other children of Mary: James and Jude, for example, were sinners. James identifies himself as "the brother of our Lord."

This proves nothing. There are many theophanies and Christophanies in the OT, where God revealed himself to certain individuals. But he did not reveal himself to the world.
There are also certain times that angels took on bodily form, but they are spirits also. Nothing is impossible with God. Do you question the ways of God?

God cannot create Himself! Are you a member of a cult like J.W., which believe that Christ is a created being? Christ is from all eternity; always was and always will be.

Where in the Bible does it say that? The Word became flesh. God the Son entered this world through a virgin, and took upon himself human flesh by being born through a virgin. The Holy Spirit overshadowed her and she conceived through the Holy Spirit.
It is not that a sinner simply gave birth to a sinless person but that that sinner gave birth to deity, and that deity (Christ) at the same time took upon himself human flesh. He was at the same time wholly flesh and wholly God--two natures which were and are inseparable.

Do you call the Holy Spirit defective? That is blasphemy! Christ was conceived of the Holy Spirit. Don't forget that. The sin nature is passed from generation to generation through the seed of man.

It is true as far as the Bible says it is. Read Romans 5:12,19. "For as by one man sin came into this world and death by sin." Do you deny this statement?

No, they are not. And the technology of today is simply a red herring not having anything to do with this discussion. Save it for another thread.

Again you are off on another red herring. Save your new technology for another thread. I believe the Bible when it says "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Do you believe that?
I believe the Bible when it tells us that Christ was sinless and undefiled. Do you believe that?

The Bible says in Romans 5:12 that sin entered this world through Adam. Either you believe the Bible or not. If you have a problem here you need to study the Bible more carefully. Or I could just say take your argument up with God.
The fact is that Eve was deceived.
Adam rebelled directly against the command of God knowing full well what he was doing. As head of the human race he was also somewhat responsible for the actions of his wife. Thus the sin was accounted to him.

The human nature of Christ did indeed come through Mary. The Bible says it did. In many places does the Bible say that Christ was born of Mary. How can you deny that?
Paul said:

Galatians 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

 

No the Bible doesn't say that; in fact you are the only one on this board that seems to be saying that.

 

You must have misunderstood me. Here is my last statement

But Scripture does not say He had the sin nature that all men inherit, so He was not fully man in that respect.

What I was saying is that Scripture does not say that Christ had the sin nature that all men inherit. What followed that statement 'so He was not fully man in that respect' was my own reflections of the fact that He had not the sin nature so He therefore was not fully man.

I stand by that belief. Christ did not have a wicked and deceitful heart. He did not have a sin nature. He could not have been fully man.

 

1 Peter 2:21-24 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
--Was he suffering as God? or as man?
He was wholly man. He prayed in the garden: not my will, but thine be done. It was the prayer of a man to God the Father. He told Peter to put up his sword, telling him he could have called 12 legions of angels to rescue him. These were the words of a perfect and complete man. "I thirst" he uttered from the cross. It wasn't the nature of God that uttered those words; it was the complete and whole nature of God the man, dying for the sins of all mankind.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
--How did Christ suffer? He suffered as a man; a perfect man; a just man. He was a just and perfect man dying for an unjust and imperfect mankind. Why? He loved us enough to die for us that he might bring us to God. It says specifically that "he was put to death in the flesh. He was perfect and wholly man.

How can you deny the Scriptures?

 

Mary was a sinner, as you confess, then the ovum of a sinner became the flesh of Jesus ( This is what you are saying, right?)
How can you say that the Blood inherited from the sinner was Sinless?

God revealed Himself to the world even before the Incarnation. LORD ate the food offered by Abraham. Was Abraham outside the world? Jacob wrestled with God the Son, Was Jacob in the dream?

A typical Witch Hunting.

Bible says Word became Flesh. Then did there exist 2 kinds of flesh in Jesus? One flesh from the egg of Mary, the other from the Word?

So, you are saying Flesh became another Flesh. then Where did it happen that Word became Flesh?

Are you illiterate? Read my post ! Typical Witch Hunting again! If you are a True Christian Believer, please behave like that, don't abuse your authority as a Mod here.

A typical problem from Greek Illiterate! check the word there. Is a Woman not Anthropou?

YOur whole theology is based on the false assumption that the sins were transmitted only thru men, not thru women ! But the Bible says, all are sinners, including women, then how can you deny that the sins can be transmitted even thru women.

In your theology, sins can be avoided if human embryos can be created only with women's ovums without sperms. In some years the human embryo will be created without sperms, only with eggs plus skin cell etc.
Then will there be sinnless people a lot in the world? Hardly!

As if I had never believed it!
Is it a New Technology that Word became Flesh?
You are strongly denying it by claiming Flesh( ovum of Mary) became Flesh ( of Jesus)

Again check the Greek Bible. Read Genesis 3 as well. Did Adam eat the fruit first and then passed it to Eve?
Have I ever denied that Jesus was born of Mary before? Groundless accusation.

ginomai there means "come out of" nothing more than that.
Was Jesus manufactured by Mary?

 

What I was saying, and misunderstand all you want, is that if Jesus carried anything from Mary, that He had the sin nature, since we know He did not, means He did not carry anything from Mary. NOT that He didn't have the sin nature because Mary did not have it.
I implied none of what you beleive I did.

 

See my post #93 in response to zenas

 

First off, I do not deny the Scripture; and I resent being accused of doing so.

I have said I believe Christ was fully God. I have also said He was man. Scripture bears this out. But it does not say He was fully man. That is a man-made phrase and doctrine that cannot be backed with the Word at all.

He did not have the sin nature that was passed to all mankind. He did not have the wicked and deceitful heart that mankind has because of sin. He did not come forth speaking lies.

 

Why is it so hard to believe God miraculously created Jesus' human body and placed it in Mary.

 

Amen, Donna. If He could form man from the dust of the ground, it is just as possible for Him to form the Son in Mary.

 

Yep, and in your body you created flesh from your flesh and your husband's flesh. But the bible says something different about Jesus. Since He is God, created by the Father (God), it can not be compared, as neither you nor your husband (same for me and my husband) are God. There is nothing in exsistance to compare it with.

 

Because Scripture does not support the idea that Mary did not conceive Christ. End of story. And no amount of Scripture twisting will prove that she did not conceive Him.

 

A baby inherits from it's mother through that egg, same as it would have Jesus, He would have inherited the sin nature, same as we all do. Adam wasn't concieved, was he fully man, fully human? No, God created his human flesh, same as He did Jesus. What makes no sense is to say Jesus had Mary's dna, inherited the sin nature from her, when we know this is not true in the least.