Was Slavery So Bad?

I just saw this today and thought it was fitting in this discussion.

A Black Man Marches For The Confederacy!

 

An interesting article. Is it possible that his "ancestral" family and that of the slave owners developed a close relationship? I'm sure it is. I also think the Confederate flag is a complicated "touchstone" that means many things to many disparate groups.

I have also heard that the prejudice/slavery issue had been faced and "gotten over" to a greater degree in the south than in the north. I live in the north, and I have found that there are enduring pockets of prejudice "up here."

It's not a "south/north" thing. Slavery was a national issue, and the uneasy racial undercurrent remains below the surface, yet seemingly always ready to bubble up somewhere.

To broaden the subject, I recently heard a broadcast on a Christian station that spoke of the current slave trade that sold women into prostitution, and I'm pretty sure they were speaking of "western" women.

There was also a recent program on cable that dealt with young people (I'm talking younger teens) who became hooked on crack. That's slavery as well, and the dealers get rich off of it.

Yeah, slavery that is purely exploitative of one group of people by another is bad (and yes, despite examples to the contrary, the general practice and philosophy of American slavery was indeed exploitative).

Brett

 

I find it interesting that the Emancipation Proclamation only freed the slaves in the rebellious states. Union states that allowed slavery were allowed to keep theirs legally. Can anyone say hypocritical?

Why is this thread still open and the bi-racial thread closed?

[ September 24, 2002, 06:29 PM: Message edited by: Optional ]

 

replicate

[ September 24, 2002, 06:28 PM: Message edited by: Optional ]

 

FYI, I read a fellow that says that in pictures found from the 1930's until 1975 the KKK did not ever use the Confederate flag but rather the Union one. After 1975, they hijacked it and I will have to try and find when the NAACP started delaring war on all things Confederate. King and X never worried about that those things.

Also, I came across this which shows that more Blacks served then what is being told today and they were armed and it was not just at the end of the war as some say today. I would also like to get a copy of the WPA interviews.

WHICH ARMY WAS SEGREGATED?

There are at the present moment many colored men in the Confederate Army,as real soldiers, having muskets on their shoulders, and bullets in their pockets, ready to shoot down loyal troops, and do all that soldiers may do to destroy the Federal government...There were such soldiers at Manassas and they are probably there still." - Frederick Douglass, Douglass' Monthly, IV (Sept. 1861), pp 516

Federal Official Records, Series I, Vol XVI Part I, pg. 805 records: "There were also quite a number of negroes attached to the Texas and Georgia troops, who were armed and equipped, and took part in the several engagements with my forces during the day."

Federal Official Records Series 1, Volume 15, Part 1, Pages 137-138: "Pickets were thrown out that night, and Captain Hennessy, Company E, of the Ninth Connecticut, having been sent out with his company, captured a colored rebel scout, well mounted, who had been sent out to watch our movements."

"...We are not likely to use one negro where the rebels have used a thousand. When I left Arkansas they were still enrolling negroes to fortify the rebellion." - Federal Official Records,
Vol. XIII, Chapter XXV, pg. 688 - September, 1862

"...The men examined to-day all agree in the report of the dissatisfaction existing in regard to the arming of the negroes, and state that the white men [Union] will not fight if they brought into the line with them; that secret meetings have been held with regard to this..." - FEBRUARY 20, 1865, Major General GEORGE G. MEADE, Commanding Army of the Potomac - Federal Official Records, Vol. XLVI, Chapter LVIII, pg. 601 - 602

The Confederate military was multiracial, multireligious, and multicultural while the Union military was strictly segregated, That segregation carried on until after World War II. ALL non-whites in the Union Army were forced to serve in the ranks of the United States Colored Troops.

Scattered in the ranks of the Confederate military were more than 3,500 Jews, 10,000 Native Americans (including a Cherokee Confederate general), 5,000 Hispanics, an unknown number of Black Confederate soldiers, and representatives of nearly every country on earth...but not in segregated units like the Union military. The 10th Louisiana Infantry, "Lee's Foreign Legion," was commanded by a former French cavalry officer and had men from 22 different countries, every state of the Union, and every Confederate state.

The "New Orleans Avegno Zouaves" had in its combat ranks men from Italy, Spain, Mexico, Ireland, France, and CHINA. The Amerasian sons of the original "Siamese Twins," Chang and Eng Bunker, served in the ranks of the 15th Virginia Cavalry and each was wounded in action.

 

Those were quotes are out of Yankee records mate, not Southern. Maybe your sources are not so good or majorily Yankee biased.

I lived in the 60's but was a hippie and not much aware of anything but sex, booze and rock and roll. When I was in the USAF in Thailand ('73-'74,I was 21)we attended our 1st race relations class I was shown a Battle flag on a license plate and was asked what that meant to me and I replied that it was a symbol of the South. I did not know of any racial connotations to it then and did not until a young Black man jumped in my face and told me his viewpoint. On the cover of Triad magazine back in 80 or 81 they had a Klansman on the cover and he was standing with an American flag behind him, bible in one hand and a gun in the other, but no Confederate flag to be seen. I was in college in NC then and the Klan and Nazis had more clashes with each other than any Klan and Black groups.

 

. . .I also lived through the 60's but I was too young to be caught up in the hippie movement. I remember as a child, riding a crowded subway train with my mother. I don't remember which store we went to, or if we'd met my father downtown for lunch. WhatI do remember, burned into my mind, was the lady sitting next to my mother (more on that in a moment). As the train made a stop and got very crowded, a man came on, stood in front of me grabbing the pole. The lady made comments to my mother to the effect that I should stand up to allow the man to sit. I am Black, they were White. Well, my mom became very indignant and told me to remain where I was as she stared this lady down. I was scared they were going to take my mother away, and at that same moment, she became a superhero in my eyes.

Now, it being the mid to early 60's there were lingering traces of "Jim Crow" in the atmosphere. This was my first encounter with racism in New York, but was not my last. . .

Was slavery bad? Ask the little 5 or 6 year old who had his first experience with some of it's after effects. It's a pretty simple question to answer if you've experienced its shadow.

But again, we are really talking about all the things that went along with it, the denegration of an entire group of people. . . deeper still:hatred (on both sides). . . even deeper still: sin. . .

Brett

 

Was it because you were black or because you were a child?

It's appropriate for a child to surrender his seat to an adult.

 

Although I'm not denying that racisim exists... I can tell you that this day and age it does exist...not towards blacks in my neighborhood but against non blacks as they are the minority.

The thing is... I was brought up in the 60's too...and I was taught in school that we are all to be treated on our individual merit and not based on our asthetic differences.

My people are Native American, English and Swedish, so I get to look at the race issue from more than one angle. I look white...but I am not white. But I am treated as a white person...the good, the bad and the unfair.

Many people have told me that I deserve any discrimination I get because of what the white people did to the black people in this country. I've researched my family line and have found that my people did not own slaves, did not barter slaves in any form...but because of my appearance I am treated as if I am guilty of these autrocities.

My people were forced to leave their homes in the dead of winter and many of them died...If anyone has a right to hate I think it would be me...but I do not.

I believe that God made all people on this planet, and that a persons heritage should be remembered and honored. I beleive that all people should be treated with dignity...even when they are not treated with dignity first.

This is why I smile and speak with as much kindness to a white person as a hispanic person as a black person as an asian person...even when they look at me with revulsion and hatered.Try not to recipricate the hatered and prejudice that is bestowed on me. It takes a lot of prayer to love those who hate you, and not react in kind.

[ December 18, 2002, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: WisdomSeeker ]

 

Oh quit whining you big baby!

Merry Christmas to you too.

 

Was it because you were black or because you were a child?

It's appropriate for a child to surrender his seat to an adult.</font>[/QUOTE]It was pretty apparent that it was because I was black.

Brett

 

Hi WisdomSeeker, I guess we're cousins back there somewhere. My people on my mother's side are Native American too (I'm all mixed up in there, German, Scottish, Native American, African Hebrew, etc.).

I didn't expect to see this thread again.

The interesting thing about it is that our modern counterpart to "slavery" mentioned in the Bible relates more to our credit system. We are slaves to our debt, aren't we? Does anybody enjoy that? Are we free while we are under it? There is an end to it, or hopefuly there is.

This is vastly different to what was practiced here. Hatred, greed, sin in general got mixed up with it.

Funny thing about hate. . . THAT'S slavery too. Glad God can break any chain. Forgiveness, love, and grace bring freedom that lasts.

And Blessed Christmas to all of you.
Brett

 

I absolutely agree with you.

Cousins huh? I love hearing when anyone has a shared heritage. My great grandmother on my fathers side was 100% Cherokee...The family looks less and less native American with each generation. I'm the first blonde in the line...and the first not to have olive skin...but that's thanks to my mothers side of the family who are primarily Swedish and English. The Cherokee people really made it a point to integrate with other races... People still don't believe me when I admit to my mixed roots. The woman census taker raised her eyebrows when I told her, but she wrote it down.

Slavery to pride, slavery to debt, to what other people think, slavery to work...Your right...slavery can be to allot of different things.

[ December 19, 2002, 03:34 PM: Message edited by: WisdomSeeker ]

 

I agree that slavery is not condemned in the Bible. I am not for slavery though. I am Southern and if I had lived in the South at that time I probably would have fought for the Southern side not because I agree with slavery but because it is my home. I am glad the North won though because it peserved our country. There was injustices on both sides. I think to be honest reparations is a waist of breath. I don't know if my forefathers were slave owners or not ,but even if I were a slave I would not whine for reparations for something that I have never experienced. I understand blacks suffer
prejudice but so do whites and everybody else. I don't hate blacks but I do think they should be treated the same as whites. The Cival War was not just about slavery that was a part but but not the whole. State's rights was the main thing. In conclusion, have a very merry Christmas!

 

Hey WisdomSeeker,

We are DEFINITELY cousins back there. On my mom's side, there is Mohawk blood (around the NJ area) and Cherokee (from the western end of N.C. near Henderson). The interesting thing is that my mom also has freckles! I have only one on the tip of my nose (now WHY???).

CDGriffin,

"Reparations" are not the answer. Education, awareness, and the willingness to change are a part of the answer. The realization that "we have not yet arrived" would be a big help. And believe it or not, that's not a big thing, just realizing that we still have work to do finding the "small discriminations" that hide in the shadows, under tables, in closets like roaches running away from the light.

You're right, we all suffer prejudice from someone for something. It sort of takes away the "moral high ground," doesn't it.

I seem remember Jesus saying something concerning logs, specs, and eye surgery . . .

Brett

 

The United States Constitution written in itself did not guarantee the freedom of the slaves--there was a clause there written by Thomas Jefferson himself that called for the release of slaves--but that clause was thrown out before the adoption of the orinial constitution--not by Jefferson but by a bunch of politicians who live in the north---(ouch!!!)--keep in mind that the constitution was written ratified, and adopted by the original 13 colonies---of which only two or three would now have been considered as part of Dixie--North Carolina, Virginia---so the modern day so called "South" didn't even exist at the time of the ratification of the Constitution---Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Arkansas, Tennessee, Kentucky, South Carolina--and others---were not even vapor on the minds of the writers and pen-ers of the Constitution. So, dudes---lets not blame whats not written in the Constitution on folks from the South--as then the "South" didn't even exist!!!!!!

However, on the bright side for all fifty states--although the constitution did not guarantee freedom of the slaves--it did promise and guarantee one thing---that somebody could come along and legislate Congress to pass amendments--and that any person, whether they be white, black, yellow, red, mix, can now petition for any amendment they deem is right and just--there was an amendment there added years ago--that did grant freedoms to vote, freedoms to travel from state to state, freedoms to black folks, to women---I just want to know how much longer this nation is gonna keep having to "whip a dead horse"--and quit blamin' slavery on the folks in the south--

You see, the real issue is---in the parts of the South(and the North) that use to have slaves---agriculture was the reason---back then there was no such a thing as a John Deere tractor, or a cotton harvestor, or a crop dustin' airplane--but denim and cotton was in high demand by our British brothers and worldly commerce--that growers had to meet demand---mass production was done by slaves----sorry, but it was the truth back then---nowadays, mass production of cotton, ginnin' cotton, plowin' ground for corn and wheat and all of that stuff is done by one man ridin' on a big ole John Deere tractor--plantin' 12-16 rows at a time and pickin' four rows at a time and suckin' cotton through a machine that would make Eli Whitney swell up with pride---no need to have slaves nowadays---lets just thank the Lord Jesus Christ that while ole Sir Eli was busy in the classroom studying---he'd invent some sorta machine that'll make slavery obsolete in just about 25 years from the time he invented the first gadget that would seperate cotton fibers from the seed and junk faster than any fingers could possibly do it--or will ever do it!!

Your friend,
Blackbird

 

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