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Featured Was the "fine linen", 'white'?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jan 10, 2015.

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  1. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    In the past, he has claimed to be Reformed but also a Sabbatarian. However, to my knowledge, no Reformed theologian or Adventist sect I know of teaches anything like the doctrine he is presenting. There are certainly many cultic variations to the SDA but never heard of this.
     
  2. PreachTony

    PreachTony Active Member

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    Yeah, I'm struggling to think of a denomination or belief system that clings to the beliefs he's displaying.

    Here's something interesting:
    http://www.mrm.org/gethsemane
    To quote the link:
    This is from a website discussing Mormon beliefs. It does not, from what I can discern, make the claim that Christ never bled on the cross, but it makes the claim that atonement for our signs happened in the Garden of Gethsemane, when Christ agonized over His pending crucifixion, as He was set to become the atoning sacrifice for the world.
     
  3. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    My land is God’s land – his fallow land which I work in, in search of the Pearl of Great Price. That was where God found me—and where God let Himself be found. I have found the Pearl of Great Price for He let Himself be found by me. His Name is Jesus Christ, Son of Man the Son of God. He let Himself be found by me IN HIS LAND.
    In no church.
    But I love to display my Pearl of Great Price in my church. I try to so display Him that He is seen in his beauty for the enjoyment of my whole Home. But oft I mislaid Him; and even forgot about Him. So I have to SEARCH my whole House to find Him again and place Him in honour and holiness and beauty again, readily visible to my Whole House.
    More often than not, I find Him again where I have forgotten Him in the first place – in some corner of my heart. Then I haven’t seen or heard of Him for long … until the longing after Him awakens in me great unrest, and I start searching for Him anew.

    And it many times has so happened that in my search after Jesus Christ my Lord, that He made me in my search DISCOVER MOST WONDERFUL THINGS!

    Jesus in the beauty of his holiness in this way suddenly shined into my eye from the darkness of my despair and longing for Him – I got a glimpse of the Pearl of Great Price in the clasp of the oyster of the deep. It shined in lustre and beauty as pure as the lily on the water above its muddy, murky bed of roots.
    CHRIST IN HIS TRIUMPH! His flesh saw no corruption in suffering the death of death. But He, prevailed, on the Pathway of Providence. The LORD is a Man of war; He TRIUMPHED GLORIOUSLY” --- IN HUMILIATION AND IN DYING AND IN DEATH. Jesus “triumphed in it” : in suffering, in crucifixion, in death, then : in his GRAVE. He triumphed in it ALL!
    The Glory of God in a cloud covering the ark of the testimony in the most holy of Herod’s temple, left, and went and stood over the body of Jesus in his grave in the cleft of the rock. That was how His flesh saw no corruption in death … AND, that, was how Jesus in his last Passover-Suffering-of-Yahweh underwent his baptism no man can be baptised with or he must DIE, unscathed and GLORIFIED. Because Jesus “always saw the LORD before (Him) so that his “FLESH would REST IN HOPE”—would “rest”, verily in his LIVE suffering of death until He entered into death’s rest of his grave.

    Now that I have become acquainted with this BEAUTY of the Lord Jesus, I no longer find it strange. On the contrary, the lying of the mother of harlots get more and more obnoxious and STRANGE to me.

     
    #43 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jan 20, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 20, 2015
  4. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    <My doctrine> is no <<<'bloodless atonement'>>>!!!

    You may apologise. But if you won't --- you're forgiven anyway.
     
  5. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    Well, I apologize that I offended you, but, if you are claiming that the only actual blood that Jesus shed for our sins was in His tears at the Garden of Gethsemane, and that He didn't actually shed His blood at His scourging and Crucifixion, then IMHO that actually amounts to a 'bloodless atonement'. This does indeed explain why you would believe the Shroud of Turin to be a hoax because it definitely does have the presence of blood on it. Your posts are not the easiest to decipher, probably because English doesn't appear to be your first language, so if I am misunderstanding your position, I do apologize.

    You never seem to answer questions asked of you. You have been asked on countless occasions over the years what church body you belong to. To my knowledge you have always skirted around the question. It is obvious in your board account information that you are being evasive and don't want anyone to know what church body you actually belong to. Maybe I'm wrong, so let me ask you this way. If you worship together with a body of Christians on Saturday, what is the name on the sign outside the building in which you meet?
     
  6. PreachTony

    PreachTony Active Member

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    No, but it appears your doctrine is one of much limited bloodshed compared to Christianity in general. Almost every branch of Christianity admits that Jesus bled in large quantities during the scourging and crucifixion. You claim that Jesus only bled in the garden.

    Almost every branch of Christianity believes the prophecy that Jesus's visage would be so marred as to not be recognizable. You have claimed that this marring of the visage was, essentially, only figurative.

    Almost every branch of Christianity believes the scripture that says:
    Yet you have seemingly said Jesus was not bruised or bloodied. He did not have "stripes," as though would have come from the scourging and you say He did not bleed during the scouring.

    Do you see my confusion from your stated point?
     
  7. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    <<<it appears your doctrine is one of much limited bloodshed compared to Christianity in general>>>

    I believe in ‘Limited Atonement’. As the ‘L’ in ‘TULIP’. And I do not believe in <<Christianity in general>> nor in the redemption of <<Christianity in general>>. But not because of a shortage of Jesus’ blood or of a necessity of more blood than actually is written He shod Himself—which would be blood in weakness and blood of dishonour to Him. Catholicism makes Jesus’ Suffering a scandal void of honourable Triumph.

    What may appear to men as ‘limited bloodshed’ to God was the principle of it actually and divinely FULFILLED in Jesus’ “SUFFERING OF SOUL UNTO DEATH”. Were it a single drop Jesus “let fall to the ground”, that one drop would have covered the sins of all the redeemed. But now the record states that Jesus ‘sweat’ –that is, let flow, more than one drop of BLOOD for the remission of ALL the sin of ALL the elect of God. THAT, was the sufficient and omnipotent grace, mercy and love of GOD. Jesus’ humanness and Jesus’ mortality and Jesus’ humiliation was REAL, but never sinful because it was Divine.

    “So is The Resurrection of the dead [or death of sinners]: It—THE RESURRECTION [in men], is sown in corruption (and) dishonour.” But Jesus being The Resurrection and The Life, He DIED in incorruptibility and honour. He vicariously suffered the death of sinners triumphantly (or he failed). Jesus did not fail; He “destroyed death” in dying, even in his suffering in dying death. Christ all the way in his humiliation, “swallowed up death IN VICTORY” until Jesus’ shedding of his blood in anxiety of soul unto death was the acme in his triumph and the POWER He disposed of in laying down his LIFE. No cell of blood of Jesus’, was dead or a cell of death; “the LIFE IS IN THE BLOOD” of Jesus.

    Jesus “received stripes” and the stripes caused greater than all human pain cummalatively because it caused DIVINE pain which we sinners can form NO IDEA of. But Jesus declared IN THAT “HOUR”, that it, was his Father’s Glory. Jesus declared also, that in that hour, He had entered into the Kingdom of his Father. He had gone into BATTLE AND CONQUERED. He received every blow the enemy could muster, but PREVAILED every moment.

    So yes, <<<Almost every branch of Christianity admits that Jesus bled in large quantities during the scourging and crucifixion.>>> That is true. It does not make it Truth. Jesus only bled in the garden. That is written. That, is Divine.

    <<<Almost every branch of Christianity believes the prophecy that Jesus's visage would be so marred as to not be recognizable.>>>

    Yes, Jesus bodily was of real human flesh—before as well as during his ordeal.

    <<<You have claimed that this marring of the visage was, essentially, only figurative.>>>

    No. That is not correct. Isaiah’s record of it was prophetic symbolism. Jesus’ experience of <<this marring>> was physical and real both before and during his living through the last Passover of Yahweh. At the same time Jesus’ suffering was Divine—Divine with a capital letter. You like me must stand in wonder before it; we cannot enter into the mystery of God. A very beautiful demonstration of our inability to penetrate the Glory of Christ’ Humiliation is the text explored at the beginning of this conversation, Exodus 24:10.

     
    #47 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jan 21, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 21, 2015
  8. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    Jesus’ trial before Annas
    Jesus’ trial before Caiaphas
    Jesus’ trial before Pilate
    Jesus’ trial before Herod
    Jesus’ trial again before Pilate

    Jesus’ trial before Annas Luke 22:54 Two hours (59) before sunrise until daybreak (66) 4 a.m. to 6 a.m.

    “The men that held Jesus mocked Him and smote / flayed / thrashed / cudgeled / played [‘derontes’] him… blindfolded Him [[addition: and struck Him in the face]] asking, Who cudgeled / played / paidophilled [‘paisas’] you? And many other BLASPHEMOUS things said they against Him.” (63-65)

    This was ‘sexual harrassment’—‘rape’! Horrible and “blasphemous”!
    But the afraid devils… they made sure it left no mark of evidence! They dared not leave evidence because of reprisal by the Roman authorities for taking ‘the law into their own hands’!

    Why am I now thinking of Roman Catholic priests and archbishops and popes?
    …and I must believe their story of the shroud of Turin?! Cowards, the blaspheming hypocrites!
     
  9. PreachTony

    PreachTony Active Member

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    I've added a bit of emphasis to your post, Gerhard, because frankly, this is probably the most shocking thing I've ever read on this forum. I really hope I'm not reading this correctly. The selection that I bolded and underlined appears to state that Jesus was raped before being handed over to the Romans.

    If that is indeed what you are saying then I'm dumbfounded. How could you possibly believe something like that? If that is your belief, then you have Jesus only bleeding in the Garden (therefore, as blood is required for remission of sin, our atonement comes not from the death and resurrection of Christ, but rather from Christ's prayer in the Garden, essentially rendering to us a sacrificeless atonement), you say He did not bleed during a time in which His body was beaten with whips (laced with rock, bone, and broken pottery), rods, a crown of thorns, and fists, He did not bleed when nails were driven into His hands/wrists and feet, He did not bleed when the spear was thrust into His side...and now you're saying he was mocked, beaten, flayed, and raped, but none of it left a mark on His body.

    Your theological doctrine just gets farther and farther from the scripture every time I read your posts.
     
    #49 PreachTony, Jan 22, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 22, 2015
  10. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    “The band and the captain of the officers of the Jews took Jesus and bound Him, and led Him away to Annas first. …Annas the high priest as if nothing happened, “then asked Jesus about his disciples and doctrine” (John 18)—as if he really was interested, the hypocrite!
    “Jesus answered… asked THEM. See, THEY know what I taught.
    And when Jesus had thus spoken, one of the officers who stood by, struck Jesus with the PALM of his hand, saying, Answerest thou the high priest so?” What a hypocrite, the rapist—as if he cared for showing respect!
    “struck” - ‘edohken rapisma’ - ‘give a blow / slap with the palm of the hand’ --- so as not to bruise or cut the skin.

    “Jesus answered the officer, If I have done evil, bear witness of the evil I did; but if I did well [and YOU did evil] why smitest / beat [‘dereis’] thou ME?!” Jesus is telling him simply what hypocrite he was, eluding to the harassment he received from these bystanders just a while ago!

    “At this point Annas…” who had become so uncomfortable, because he knew what had happened between these men before him, “had Jesus sent bound to Caiaphas” …his high priest son in law. (24,13)
     
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