Was there death already before Adam?

In John 15 Christ is the vine and we are the branches - we are In Christ and Christ's word ABIDES IN US.

We don't try to bend twist and obfuscate the lesson of John 15 by asking "But what are the leaves on the branches" or "what is the dirt" or "where is the fence" or "is it springtime yet"??

But I can see some might try such "antics".

Ahh - the words of Christ our Lord and Savior in John 15. What wonderful truths He taught there - what a great blessing to sit at his feet and listen and learn.

And then there is "that" approach to the Words of Christ "by contrast".

Oh well - to each his own.

The lesson is EXPLICITLY said to be about "fruit" and the WARNING about being TAKEN OUT of the vine of Christ.

Anyone reading the chapter gets that point "instantly" until they then embrace the man-made traditions of OSAS and suddenly realize they must "UNDO" John 15!!

Christ said those taken out - living branches WITHER and then DIE and are cast into the fire. For they were once alive so they WITHER and then die and are cast into the fire.

Key points like this are very important to gloss over if you are determined to cling to the man-made tradition of OSAS no matter what the Bible says.

Like that!

But then there is the "silly question" about the leaves, and the dirt and "is it really springtime - if so -- why"

Yeah - just like that!

In Christ,

Bob

 

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In Romans 11 it is stated clearly "IF they do not CONTINUE in UNBELIEF, He is able to GRAFT THEM IN AGAIN" that is not a parable at ALL!

In any case - the point being unnanswered - remains.

In Christ,

Bob

In Rom 11:8-16 it is the Jews that are cast away for UNBELIEF.

"Obviously" this is a contrast between Jews and Gentiles (Israel and Gentiles) and it is a claim that Israel failed due to unblief --

Incredibly obvious - to all!

It is not a claim that ALL Israelites go to hell and that ALL gentiles go to heaven.

Obviously.

It is a claim that the Hebrew NATION CHURCH failed - and that there is now an all-nations church system in its place!

Paul is not claiming that He as a Hebrew is going to hell.

Being cast out of the vine of Christ in Rom 11 AND in John 15 is devastating - is fatal - is to fall from grace!

Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Clearly it is not "for Israel's benefit" that they are cast out of the vine of Christ. They do not "go to heaven by some OTHER means than Christ"!!

In Christ,

Bob

 

This is Bob's SDA's version of purgatory!!! :laugh:

 

What a funny response to the Bible texts listed above.

I did not realize that I was a Bible author!!

(BTW all who go to Purgatory - go to heaven)

The Word of God can not be discredited so as to call it " a lesson on purgatory" -- though I suppose when your argument runs out - you could be reduced to that.

 

Was there death before Adam? Wrong question; it should be: Was there life after Adam?

Since Adam there are only sinners - sinners universal and sinners forgiven; lost sinners and saved sinners. How: By one factor: Forgiveness! The holiest of forgiven sinners is that man most in need of this forgiveness - forgiveness that at the same time is righteousness and life. Through Jesus Christ, of course; ONLY through Him. Woe to the rest ... to the glory of God woe to them; as it is to the glory of God the saved received mercy through Jesus Christ and for no other reason whatsoever.