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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Aug 5, 2019.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Have you wondered what God's intended message was when He talked about "conscience." We know that salvation restores our conscience, and that by the practice of sin we can defile our conscience. If we have splashed mud upon the window of our soul that lets God's light in, how do we scrub it clean? Has God provided something like Windex?

    If we consider an action, say to misrepresent others, why would the light of God shining through our conscience not dissuade us?

    G4893, syneidēsis translated as conscience has this meaning: the soul as distinguishing between what is morally good and bad, prompting to do the former and shun the latter, commending one, condemning the other.

    So how do we keep it clean in order to let the maximum light of God shine in our hearts?

    You are not going to like my answer: Bible Study!!
    Here is a bit of knowledge from God's word - food will not commend us to God, we are neither the worse if we do not eat, nor the better if we eat. But we are to take care lest this liberty becomes a stumbling block to the weak.

    If we forgo something to make us look better in the eyes of God, we are foolish, but if we forgo something out of compassion and service to our brothers and sisters in Christ, we are enlightened through a well scrubbed conscience.
     
    #1 Van, Aug 5, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
  2. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Active Member

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    "If thou doest well,
    shalt thou not be accepted?

    and if thou doest not well,
    sin lieth at the door.

    And unto thee shall be his desire,
    and thou shalt rule over him."

    Genesis 4:7
     
  3. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Ah yes, God speaks to the unregenerate.

    Strange - No?
     
  4. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Active Member

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    Yes, sir.

    God is like, "what are you so upset about, Cain?

    You brought Me an 'offering', of your fruit of the ground', and that is Not acceptable, because Offerings to Me Must Be as I Say and PICTURE THAT YOU UNDERSTAND THE FUTURE BLOOD SACRICE I WILL PROVIDE.

    God Accepted Able and his Offering, which Pictured that God had Saved his soul and credited Able with New Life in Jesus, AS OF A LAMB SLAIN, BEFORE THE FOUNDATION of THE WORLD.

    Jesus' Varcarious Work of Salvation Was Already Efficacious, to Adam and Eve, whom God', Covered' with a Picture and the Message of The Gospel.

    The seed of the women is Jesus.

    "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it" (Jesus) "shall bruise thy head" (cause your influence over The World, to fall like lightening as lighting crashes down from the natural sky, ONCE JESUS IS RAISED FROM THE DEAD AND HE ACCOMPLISHES SALVATION IN TIME,

    Which Does What? MAKES THE ACCUSERS ACCUSATIONS POWERLESS and VOID to all who Jesus Saves,

    BECAUSE JEUS RAISED from THE DEAD,

    = NULLIFYING SATAN'S LIES.

    SATAN IS DOOMED and JESUS' GOSPEL MESSAGE HINDERS SATAN'S ACCUSATIONS and INFLUENCE, as lightening falls from the sky.

    Boom.

    "and thou shalt bruise his Heel" (Satan would see Jesus betrayed and Crusified, although Ultimately, by The Determinant Counsel and Forknowlegde of God).

    God Asked Cain, "if thou doeth well",

    If Cain had the Spirit of God in him like Able did,

    "would thou not be accepted", as Ables soul was, BEFORE he brought his blood sacrifice, Picturing that his soul was Saved.

    "and if thou doest not well,
    sin lieth at the door."

    You guilt of sin before God lies at the door of your conscience, Cain.

    You know who put that conscience there?

    God.

    If you REPENT and bring forth fruits meet ( fitting) for Repentance ( showing and Picturing that God Has Wrought Repentance of THAT SIN YOU HAVE THAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, CAIN, and Faith in you soul,

    then:

    "And unto thee shall be his desire,
    and thou shalt rule over him."

    Cain, as the elder, would have Able willfully serving him, according to his primogenitor.
     
  5. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Hmm, lots of those things in your bible about the discussion between God and Cain aren't in mine.
     
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    There is a difference between bible study and bible revision, or bible study and copy and pasting screed.

    Once you get in the habit of altering the message to fit man-made doctrine its all she wrote. Yes means no, from means before, draw mean compel, adoption means rebirth, accepting direction means ordained, and on and on.
     
  7. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    sometimes things are lost (or added) in the translation for clarity but this is discussion between GOD and Cain is a revision par excellance...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Active Member

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    I'm totally paraphrasing to give the gist.

    God's 'Offer', for which Cain would be 'accepted', was Ceremonial.

    Cain didn't even bring the correct Offering to satisfy God's Ceremonial Requirements.

    Because Crain's understanding of God was only Hellbound Carnality, where has been since he died, and Crain's Ceremonial 'worship' did not reflect any Spiritual Graditude, Love, or Worship.

    If you just generally say something is not whatever, it doesn't do any good, unless we know if you have something to talk about.
     
  9. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Active Member

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    You are going to stop revising The Bible, Van?

    Is that what you are telling us?

    What did I revise and what did I copy and paste?

    And why don't you agree and understand this passage?

    Hank says something is not in his Bible.

    You say revion and cut and paste.

    What I said is Bible Study.
     
  10. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    OK - what was "ceremonial"? Why was GOD communicating with Cain if he couldn't understand what GOD was trying to get across to Cain.

    Later Cain prays to GOD to lessen his punishment. GOD hears his prayer and grants it.
     
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    You are going to stop revising The Bible, Van?
    The old reverse the charge ploy.

    What did I revise and what did I copy and paste?
    The Cain/God exchange

    You say revision and cut and paste.
    The Cain/God exchange was a revision and a copy and paste.

    What I said is Bible Study.
    I see no evidence of bible study in your posts, just the same Calvinist falsehoods posted again and again on this board.

    You should know, if you had studied, that people are made righteous when they are put in Christ. You should know no one was regenerated before Christ arose from the dead, if you had studied the concept.
     
  12. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Active Member

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    I've got someone asking me,

    what was "ceremonial"?,

    in Genesis 4:7.

    Aren't you the one who came off with, "hmmm", to me, Hank?

    Whew.

    "" Why was GOD communicating with Cain if he couldn't understand what GOD was trying to get across to Cain.""

    "BRING THE RIGHT CEREMONIAL OFFERING, CAIN, AND I WILL ACCEPT IT".

    NO 'OFFER WAS MADE FROM GOD to ACCEPT CAIN, MORALLY, or SPIRITUALLY.

    When Cain complained to God that making an example of him, to live in misery all his life, as punishment for murdering his innocent brother, Cain was complaining AGAINST THE MERCY OF GOD, for Allowing him to live INSTEAD OF THROWING HIM IN HELL, RIGHT THEM.

    Cain made no 'prayer'.

    What Cain complained about, God Chose to Put a Mark on him and say, "look, you act like I'm going to Send you out to be slain, and I, God, never Said anything like that".

    So. out of Temporal Mercy, again, that Cain did not deserve, God Said, "I'll Protect you from being slain, like this", in so many paraphrased words of mine.

    ...

    NO 'OFFER WAS MADE FROM GOD to ACCEPT CAIN, MORALLY, or SPIRITUALLY.

    God's Offer was to Accept Cain's Ceremonial offering, if performed correctly, and wasn't and wouldn't be, because it was not in Crain's God-Hating Carnality, and finite, fleshly, deceive, desparatly wicked heart, and God Knew it. .

    No prayer by Cain.
    No request, or invocation was made.
    No Mediation by The Mediator took place.

    No 'Answer' of a Prayer, by God.
    What God Did still Left Cain's initial punishment that God had Pronounced on him, Right Where God Said it.
    Nothing was 'Answered', or 'granted', or changed, with regard to God's Pronouncement of Temporal Punishment, for life.
     
  13. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Active Member

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    No gravely serious one.

    Odd. Commentary is fairly normal.
    I reject your rejection.



    I reject your rejection


    I am not Calvinist, however, if you hate his teachings regarding The Depravity of the Sinner, that hatred is not exclusively toward Calvin, or I, or the board.

    [snip]

    Then, why was Abram Righteous?

    Who told you there is another Gospel for Old Testament Saints?

    They were called 'Saints', BECAUSE they were Regenerated.

    [snip]
     
    #13 Alan Gross, Aug 6, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2019
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    LOL, the poster ignores scripture after scripture, then charges me with rejecting God.
    Alan, which of the five points of the TULIP do you reject? No answer will be forthcoming.
     
  15. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Active Member

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    I add a couple of hundred to those 5.

    The T. U. L. I. P. acronym of 5 Major Glorious Truths and Facts of God, being a truncated compendium, may be a contributing component of non-believers cavelier dismissile of them, as strawman, as you like to ADVANCE, since they may be so easily misrepresented by unsaved authors and their devote followers.

    The Doctrines of The Eternally Giving, Unmeritered Mercy of our Eternal, All Powerful God, in Counseling within Their Triune Diety to Love the Unlovable, God-Hating, Bastards that are wretched, vile, SINNERS, with mouths of open seplicures and full transgressors of God's Thrice Holy Eternal Perfection and Absolutly Established Moral Law of The Universe are, BY PLANNING in Their Determinant Counsel and Forknowlegde, to Have CRUCUFIED THE SINLESS, VIRGIN BORN, ONLY BEGOTTEN, SON of GOD, WHO is GOD, THE SECOND PERSON in The TRIUNE GODHEAD, THAT LIVED A PERFECT LIFE UNDER THE WHOLE CEREMONIAL AND MORAL LAW OF GOD, SPIRITUALLY, TO OBTAIN A RIGHTEOUS DESIGNATION TO GIVE AS A SUBSTITUTIONARY BLOOD SACRIFICE, ( A RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT THE FATHER GOD and ETERNAL GODHEAD NEVER POSSESSED, UNTIL JESUS LIVED IT OUT) for worms, IS WORTHY of WORSHIP, and PRAISE, to THE EVERLASTING GOD, WHO is ABOVE ALL of our WORSHIP and PRAISE.

    There is ONE ETERNAL PLAN of SALVATION, of THE ETERNAL GODHEAD, CALLED THE COVENANT of GRACE.

    It takes me a couple of hundred points of Specific, God-Honoring Doctrinal Teachings, from The Holy Bible, just to stuff a few dozen essential proof positive, clinger Scriptures into EACH ONE, and BARELY SCRATCH THE SERVICE.

    Your dismissile of God's Words, sir, is unsufferable.

    Calvin personally saw to it to put Bible Believers to death.

    That's me.
     
  16. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    OH well then no one could have been saved, ALL went to hell including Abraham not having been born again.

    without the Holy Spirit he or anyone else could not understand the things of God, they were foolishness to them, they could not "see kingdom of God" according to Jesus in John 3.

    Explain?
     
  17. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Hmm, Cain made a request of GOD, GOD HEARD HIM. Deny it, get mad, whatever. Cain prayed, GOD heard, God granted. God doesn't need your approval to hear and grant a request from whomsoever HE pleases.

    Genesis 4
    13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
    14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
    15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

    The mark was not granted until AFTER Cain's PRAYER.
     
  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Don't you love it when a poster claims he or she is a 5 point uh non-Calvinist.
    The T, U, L and I of the TULIP are as bogus as a three dollar bill.
    Why did God set life and death before people if they were unable to choose life.
    No answer will be forthcoming because the doctrine is unbiblical.
    Why did God choose individuals for salvation through faith in the truth if the election was unconditional? No answer will be forthcoming because the doctrine is unbiblical.
    Why did Jesus become the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world if He died only for the elect? No answer will be forthcoming because the doctrine is unbiblical.
    Why does God credit our faith in Christ as righteousness if our faith is given and instilled in us by God, since if that were true, it would already be righteous. No answer will be forthcoming because the doctrine is unbiblical.
     
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Abraham went to "Abraham's bosom" and had to wait to be made perfect until after Christ died.

    The idea of John 3, where those not born again can not "see" the kingdom is the same as verse 5, they could not enter it. The word translated see does not mean visualize, not it refers to "seeing" someone as in a face to face meeting, which of course requires entry.

    Now perhaps you realize bible study requires actual study and not picking the commentaries that match your presumptions.
     
  20. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Chapter and verse please where it says Abraham went to Abraham's bosom" and had to wait to be made perfect until after Christ died. And Isaac and Jacob and all born again Jews before Christ died had to go to "Abraham's bosom" and had to wait to be made perfect until after Christ died

    Now perhaps you realize bible study requires actual study and not picking the commentaries that match your presumptions.
     
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