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Featured We have to obey Jesus!

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Moriah, Jul 17, 2012.

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  1. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    You want to know HOW the Spirit testifies to spirit?????

    1) The Spirit causes me to have no fear of the Law or anyone trying to use the Law against me (as the SDA's do and others like them) just as Romans 8:15 EXPLAINS to those who have the Spirit of Jesus Christ. Read it!

    2) The Spirit causes me to cry Abba Father! Just like the scripture EXPLAINS to those who have the Spirit of Jesus Christ.

    Now, if one has the Spirit of Christ, one will agree with the scripture and KNOW that they are in the faith.

    Hope this helps, if not, I don't know what else I can tell you. But your understanding that somehow obeying commandments gives one assurance of being in the faith is not a good gauge to go by. Like I said, I strive to obey Jesus because I love Him, but I also am honest with God and will admit to you and all that I fall short everyday in some way. If I had to rely upon my ability to obey all commands to the standard God requires to inherit eternal life I would always doubt my salvation. I am saved because I am born of God, Spirit and spirit became one. I have been placed into the family of God through regeneration, an act of God alone! Ever since I have been going through my sanctification process, a process of life dealing with a nature that sins and a nature that cries Abba Father!

    Thank God it is by Grace!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  2. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    There is the Old Testament Law, and there is the New Testament Law. Are you obeying the New Testament Law, the perfect law?

    Jesus says to those who overcome. You have only gone against me when I speak of giving up sin.
     
  3. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Have you given up sin, all sin, completely.
    If so, then you are sinless, correct?
    If I am right to conclude that then the Bible says:

    1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

    1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

    Thus, you have deceived yourself, the truth is not in you, you have made Christ a liar, and his word is not in you.

    We have gone down this path before.
    But this what you accuse Steaver of NOT doing. Why do you accuse Steaver of NOT giving up all sin, when you cannot give up sin yourself?
     
  4. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    I did not say I did not ever sin. I have given up many sins. I love obeying Jesus. I take pleasure in the fear of the Lord. I no longer have the desire for sin. I have offered my body as a living sacrifice. We are told to purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God, and that is what I am doing.

    Remember, and do not try change the fact that you teach we do not have to do anything to be saved, nor to stay saved.
     
  5. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I believe what the Bible says:
    Here is what it says that you do not believe:

    "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved." (Acts 16:31)
    --a very simple statement of Scripture which you refuse to believe.
    It teaches that salvation is by faith without works. You don't believe it.

    I know you cannot keep this commandment fully:
    Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

    I know you cannot keep this commandment fully:
    Matthew 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    I know you haven't kept this commandment fully:
    Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
    20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

    There are sins of omission and sins of commission.
    What sins do you omit in your life?
    Which commands do you not obey?
     
  6. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    The jailer feared God, s. 29. He sought God, and humbled himself, asking what he could do to be saved, s. 30. That is turning to God with his whole heart and soul, it is also acknowledgment that he knew he needed to be saved, s. 30, which is confession, it is also calling on the name of the Lord. The jailor did many things. I enjoy learning about these things, it is about the deeper things of God.
    Something else you are not considering is that before the jailor was saved, the word of the Lord was spoken to them, s. 32. You have to be in denial to assume nothing was said or felt by the jailor and his whole household while the word of God was spoke to them.
    You are resorting to falsely accusing me again. You need to stop. Jesus knows I love God with all my heart, all my soul, and all my mind.


    You are wrong again. I treat everyone the way I would like to be treated. That is what we are commanded to do.

    God was speaking to the Apostles. According to the Apostle Paul, that command was fulfilled, fulfilled by the ones to whom this was commanded. Romans 10:18
    But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did: “Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.”
     
  7. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    The jailer was sleeping on his watch, when he shouldn't have been.
    Suddenly there was a great earthquake, the doors were opened, the shackles fell off Paul and Silas. Seeing these miraculous events the jailor feared for his life. He knew that if any prisoner escaped the penalty for an escaped prisoner was death. He therefore was about to fall on his sword, when Paul called out to him: "Stop, for we are all here." Then the soldier was still afraid, but did not commit suicide. But instead he brought out Paul and Silas. Still trembling from his "near death experience" he asked them "Sirs what must I do to be saved?
    They answered "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved."
    And he did.
    There were no other works involved, but faith.
    His fear was a fear of the consequence of death from his superiors; a fear that prisoners had escaped; a fear that his own life was in jeopardy.

    It was later that his household was saved. The jailor was saved then.
    You do not love Christ with all your mind. If you did you would not sit behind that computer and post false things about people. You would not tell people that "I have confirmation that you are not saved." What an ungodly thing to say! That is not loving God with all your mind. You post things like this every day. It is not loving God.
    Your neighbor is the world. If you loved the world as yourself you would go and do something about it--go to one of the most needy places on earth that has no gospel witness, be a missionary to those people, love them for Christ's sake. That is loving your neighbor as yourself.
    Jesus said.
    He that forsakes not all that he has cannot be my disciple.
    The apostle Paul was not present when that command was given. You are misquoting Romans 10:18. The Great Commission is not nullified. It is applicable to every believer. In Mark it says to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. That is for you to obey. If you haven't been a part of the solution you are a part of the problem. Millions of not billions of souls are lost and going to Hell and you don't care. That is sin in and of itself.
    A quote from Isaiah about the Jews, that you have taken out of context. You should be ashamed.
     
  8. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    You have spoken untruths here. You have spoken untruths about God’s Word. Less importantly, you have spoken untruths about me.

    I am not going to respond to defending myself against your false accusations of me.

    You have been proven wrong by scriptures.

    If you want to debate doctrine and not use this site as a personal attack against me,

    then I will love to discuss more with you.
     
  9. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    The jailer feared God, s. 29. He sought God, and humbled himself, asking what he could do to be saved, s. 30. That is turning to God with his whole heart and soul, it is also acknowledgment that he knew he needed to be saved, s. 30, which is confession, he is also calling on the name of the Lord. The jailor did many things. I enjoy learning about these things, it is about the deeper things of God.

    Something else you are not considering is that before the jailor was saved, the word of the Lord was spoken to them, s. 32. You have to be in denial to assume nothing was said or felt by the jailor and his whole household while the word of God was spoke to them.

    You are wrong about every believer having to go to teach everyone.

    Romans 10:18 But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did: "Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world."

    Psalm 19:4 Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world. In the heavens he has pitched a tent for the sun,

    Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world.
    The command Jesus gave was to his who did preach the gospel.

    Colossians 1:6 that has come to you. All over the world this gospel is bearing fruit and growing, just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and understood God's grace in all its truth.

    Colossians 1:23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
     
  10. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I explained the Scripture to you, and this is how you answer??
     
  11. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    You need to stop using this site personally to attack me personally. I have replied to the scriptures that we were debating.
     
  12. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    Here are the scriptures we were debating. This is what we were discussing last, without the personal attacks.
     
  13. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Does not Jesus forbid calling anyone a "fool":


    Mt. 5:22 ....but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

    Wasn't the following your response to my post:

    I do not have to answer a fool according to his folly. - Moriah (post #14:1)


    Does not Jesus and Paul condemn the kind of personal attacks you made on DHK:

    it makes you deceitful and a liar. - Moriah (post #152)

    You are in a false belief system just like SBM. - Moriah (post #123)

    You are ridiculous -Moriah (post #123)

    You teach lies. - Morah (post #128)


    Rom. 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
    20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
    21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

    Lu 6:27 ¶ But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

    Lu 6:28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

    1Pe 3:9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.

    Did you obey these Scriptures with all your heart, all your soul and all your mind? They are all talking about responding to YOUR ENEMIES.

    So, did you sin? Did you violate these scriptures? Did you obey them? Are you a spiritually mature enough Christian to admit you are wrong when you are obviously wrong???

    A person who loves the Lord their God with ALL their heart, ALL their mind and ALL their soul will repent of disobedience to these commandments? You are guilty because we have in black and white and could quote countless more but will you repent? You would if you love the Lord your God with ALL your heart, ALL your mind, ALL your soul and your neighbor as yourself!

    But WILL YOU?

    Here is proof you do not love the Lord your God with ALL your heart, ALL your soul and ALL your mind and your neighbor as yourself
     
  14. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    You are breaking the rules by turning this site into a place where you attack me personally.
    You are not qualified to judge me.
    Stop turning my threads, or any thread into a place filled with your rants against others personally.
     
  15. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    These are the last scriptures that were discussed. If anyone would like to discuss doctrines, I would love to discuss with you.
     
  16. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I have explained these Scriptures to you, in their context, and you do not believe me. There is no reason to conclude he feared God. Look at the verse:
    Acts 16:29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
    --Where does it say he feared God? It doesn't.
    He feared for his life!

    What just happened previous to this. Context is important:
    Acts 16:27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.

    He sought God, and humbled himself, asking what he could do to be saved, s. 30. That is turning to God with his whole heart and soul, it is also acknowledgment that he knew he needed to be saved, s. 30, which is confession, he is also calling on the name of the Lord. The jailor did many things. I enjoy learning about these things, it is about the deeper things of God. [/quote]
    This is pure speculation and eisigeses. What does the verse say:
    Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
    He called on Paul and Silas not on the name of the Lord.
    There is nothing in this verse about turning to the Lord, nothing!
    He brought them out because Paul told him not to kill himself, and that no one had escaped. Paul knew what was happening. There was something of a supernatural nature going on, and he knew that Paul would know. No doubt by now he was convicted by the Holy Spirit. But there is no confession, no acknowledgement of anything. You are adding to the Word of God.

    In verse 31 is where Paul shares the gospel, and the jailor gets saved.
    You conveniently skip over verse 31
    "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved."
    Why, when the jailor was about to kill himself, and then asked Paul about salvation, would he not have been saved right there and then?? There was no reason. If he had not been saved, an unsaved man would have no reason to take Paul and Silas to his home putting his life and family in so much danger.

    Acts 16:32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
    33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
    --Now he was able to preach the gospel to the rest of the household.
    Now the jailor was able to tend to the injuries sustained by Paul by being in jail. Only a saved man would do that.
    --Now they were in a place where these saved individuals of this household were able also to obey the Lord in baptism.
    If I am wrong here, when Paul gives this command to his disciples then I must logically conclude that every command ever given to the disciples throughout the entire gospels is not applicable to us today: The Lord's Prayer (Lord teach us to pray). The Beattitudes, John 14:21,23,15, and all the rest of the verses on obedience, the coming of the Holy Spirit, the prophecy of his own death and resurrection, etc. Everything that he said to his disciples relates only to his disciples. You might as well tear Matthew, Mark, Luke and John out of your Bible and throw those books in the garbage because they don't apply to us. Right?
    What foolish thinking.

    The Great Commission is given in every gospel.
    --Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
    It is also given in Acts 1:8.
    It is exemplified in Acts 8:4 where they all went every preaching the Word.

    In the OT, God called out a nation unto himself, the nation of Israel.

    In the NT God is still calling a nation unto himself:
    1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
    --They are to go and show the praises of him who has called us out of darkness into marvellous light. But where are we to go? Into the farthest reaches of the world.
    You do err not knowing the Scriptures.
    You do err always taking Scriptures out of context.

    In verses 13 to 15 the Great Commission is given again, something you should take great heed to.
    In verse 17 is that great verse on faith--it comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
    And then Paul turns his attention to Israel for an example and a defense of his argument for the Great Commission just stated.
    In verse 18: Did they (the Jews) not all hear? Yes they did. All the Jews heard the Word. The argument is that if all the Jews heard the Word then it is possible for all the Word to hear the Good News. For nothing is impossible with God. God will be with them as he was with the Jews.
    Really? Psalm 19:1-4 talk of creation. When did God write the gospel: the death burial and resurrection of Christ in the stars?
    This defeats your argument. Not one of the apostles ever came to Rome until Paul was taken there as a prisoner. He writes the letter never having been to Rome. We believe that perhaps Aquilla and Priscilla started the church, but it wasn't started by an apostle. And yet their faith is being reported all over the world. They realized the importance of the Great Commission without any apostle.
    Again, it is the believers of the church that realize the importance of the gospel.
    The Colossians recognize the importance of the Great Commission.
    And after all of that you do not recognize its importance, and don't believe you are obligated to obey, but rather sit in disobedience. This is truly unbelievable!!
     
  17. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    Why would he fear for his life and not God? THE JAILOR SAW THAT ALL THE PRISONERS WERE STILL THERE!


    Asking Paul and Silas what he must do to be saved is turning to the Lord. I guess you want us to believe he was turning away from the Lord. Maybe you want us to believe he was asking about being saved so he can reject the idea.



    You are denying the scriptures to protect your doctrine taught by your leaders, the men of the reformed group.


    At this time, I believe the scriptures show that the jailor feared God more than his own life being taken.

    You have not proven your beliefs. Even the eunuch was preached the gospel before being saved. Philip explained the gospel to him first!

    You admit that what you say is foolish.


    You just only know what men in your religion have taught you. For you to claim that was a command from Jesus for every single person who believes, that they all leave and preach become traveling preachers, then it would show this somewhere in the scriptures. We would see this, that all believers had to go and leave their families to be preachers, every single person who was saved would then be required to leave and travel and become preachers. You are speaking nonsense.
    Did Paul preach that to the Ephesians, Galatians, and the Corinthians, etc.? No. You are blindly teaching what someone else has blindly been taught.

    I quoted scripture. Your argument is not with me then, it is with Paul.


    Are you claiming every single Colossian went out and preached the gospel all over the world?
     
    #77 Moriah, Jul 18, 2012
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  18. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    They are your words not mine and your words are simply compared to the scriptures and your claim to be sinless and that is precisely what your claim is when you say you love the Lord your God with ALL your heart, ALL your mind and ALL your soul and your neighbor as yourself.

    The evidence simply exposes the hypocrisy between what you are on record saying versus what you claim.

    Jesus says we know them by their fruits and all I have done is placed your public fruits - your words - which are contradictory to God's Word!!!
     
    #78 The Biblicist, Jul 18, 2012
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  19. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    I do not want this thread to be derailed with Biblicists rants. Please see this post as the latest comments concerning this topic related to the OP.
     
  20. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Depends on what YOU believe emcompasses "New Testament Law". I asked you before to give me the list you have come up with.

    Could you reword this please, the satement makes no sense as worded (to me anyways). Maybe give the scripture reference.
     
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