Web Video: 23 minutes in hell

Hi David!:wavey:

It means by adding a post to the thread, it pushes it (bumps it) up to the top of the list in the forum. Sometimes someone has nothing to add to the discussion at that time, but merely wants to bump it up to get it more notice.

 

That is just not the case.

"The People's New Testament" ("PNT") says:

A parable, also, showing the consequences of a worldly spirit and the worldly use of wealth. Arnot says: ``Here, as in other cognate parables, great wisdom is displayed in bringing the whole force of the rebuke to bear on one point​

Barnes in his commentary says:

Many have supposed that our Lord here refers to a real history, and gives an account of some man who had lived in this manner; but of this there is no evidence. The probability is that this narrative is to be considered as a parable, referring not to any particular case which had actually happened, but teaching that such cases might happen.​

Clarke says:

This account of the rich man and Lazarus is either a parable or a real history. If it be a parable, it is what may be: if it be a history, it is that which has been.​

"The Fourfold Gospel" says:

PARABLE OF THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS. #Lu 16:19-31| The parable we are about to study is a direct advance upon the thoughts in the previous section. ​

Lightfoot says:

Whoever believes this not to be a parable, but a true story, let him believe also those little friars, whose trade it is to shew the monuments at Jerusalem to pilgrims, and point exactly to the place where the house of the 'rich glutton' stood. ..... And that it was a parable, not only the consent of all expositors may assure us, but the thing itself speaks it. ​

Matthew Henry:

This he shows in the other parable of the rich man and Lazarus, which has likewise a further intention, and that is, to awaken us all to take the warning given us by the written word, and not to expect immediate messages from the other world​

J. C. Ryle said of this passage:

The parable we have just read in one respect is unique in the Bible. It is the only passage of Scripture which describes the feelings of the unconverted after death. For this reason, as well as for many others, the parable deserves special attention. ​

None of the above authors was (as far as I know) Seventh Day Adventists, or in membership of any cult.

I have just tried doing a Google search for:

"Parable of the Rich man and Lazarus" ​

There were over 91 thousand results, and I am fairly sure they were not all cultish web sites

 

Thanks. Obvious really. Sorry for being so slow on the uptake!

 

If you will (and would have taken note) I stated "...The only ones I actaully know of who hold that veiw (as a group) is Seventh Day Adventists..."
So unless you are stating I was lieing (which I don't beleive you were) about what "I" know, it would have been better to take your time in reading it.

Your are right there are others who hold that view some true believers and others not.
But it is of note that it can be effectively argued this 'is not' a parable.
Case in point:
Clarke ACTAULLY states "...is either a parable or a real history." He shows both points as being probable.

Barnes even states: "...the probability is that this narrative...is a parable..." Even he could not attest conclusively it was a parable.

Lightfoot doesn't even believe it represents a literal hell but the destruction of Jews for rejection of Christ and the entrance of the Gentiles into Gods chosen and blessed favor. (he did hold to Replacement theology if memory serves as to what I just read) But like many of the Reformers and Calvinists and some other early church fathers (starting with Augustine - that is the early reference "I" have found for it) held to the Spiritually Israel or Replacement Theology and hold this is allagorically speaking to this issue (even Gill). Not ALL do, but I have found the vast majority who hold the parable view is Calvinistic or others. (no connection intended)

Mattew Henry states this odd peice:
Luke 16:19-31 - ...Yet we need not call it a history of a particular occurrence, but it is matter of fact that is true every day, that poor godly people, whom men neglect and trample upon, die away out of their miseries, and go to heavenly bliss and joy, which is made the more pleasant to them by their preceding sorrows; and that rich epicures, who live in luxury, and are unmerciful to the poor, die, and go into a state of insupportable torment, which is the more grievous and terrible to them because of the sensual lives they lived: and that there is no gaining any relief from their torments. Is this a parable? What similitude is there in this? The discourse indeed between Abraham and the rich man is only an illustration of the description, to make it the more affecting, like that between God and Satan in the story of Job.

M. Henry actually believes the conversation between God and Satan was made up to illstrate a point?? That is was a new one for me, regarding his works.

Wesley, Ryrie, Wiersbe and others hold the veiw it as a true story (or history).
However, many scholars just state it COULD be one or the other, and I have no problem with that stance (that it could be either or). I only have a problem with those who think it IS either or.

But it can not be shown to be exclusively as a parable when all writers (from both sides) speak of the unique and unparelled way Jesus gives this tale which is distinct and different from all other parables.


BTW - You are right that not all of them are cults. Thank you

 

Now back to 23 minutes in Hell...

 

I made my first reply to this thread without viewing the video. My comments were based on the many other similar "testimonies" I have read and seen from people who have supposedly been to hell and lived to tell about it. My 'gut reaction' was that these people are for the most part charlatans seeking fame and perhaps fortune. They make the charismatic circuits because it is these charismatics who gravitate towards the sensational.

I have just put my initial feelings aside and watched the entire video of this guy's "testimony". From his very mouth he has confirmed my initial assessment. He said that God confirmed the "vision" in many ways but the FIRST confirmation was from the very SAME woman whose book I mentioned in my first post. I have THAT book in my library and I tell you it is full of lies, deceit and blasphemy. (Divine Revelation of Hell by Mary Kaye Baxter) He goes on to use other sensationalists' "testimonies" as a way of legitimatizing his own version of "My Hellish Vacation". (Sorry about the sarcasm, I could not resist.)

Though soft spoken and apparently sincere in his presentation of this "vision" and his gospel call at the end; this man is deceived and is a false teacher/prophet.

"From M.K. Baxter's book:
Tenderly Jesus spoke and said, "My child, hell is real. But you could never know for sure until you had experienced it for yourself. Now you know the truth and what it is really like to be lost in hell. Now you can tell others about it. I had to let you go through that so you would know without a doubt". (emphasis mine.)

Please people........DO NOT LISTEN TO THESE CHARLATANS!!!!!!!!!!!

Trust your Bible, only.

 

I spent 23 minutes in hell recently. Oh, wait, that was just the time I spent reading and posting in grape juice/alcohol threads. Never mind.

 

I sincerely apologise if I gave the impression that I thought you were lying - I assure you that such a thought didn't enter my head. Please forgive me.

 

Brother, there is no need. But there is a need to restate what I said regarding "...to take your time in reading it".

Case in point brother:
:So unless you are stating I was lieing (which I don't beleive you were) about what "I" know, it would have been better to take your time in reading it. "

:laugh:
So, I didn't believe you were accusing me of such but your wording could have insinuated a different tune. I have seen on the BB your heart in discussions and is why I know what you were intending. You have a worthy testimony, God be praised in that, for many of us on here do not.

 

Why take over an hour to describe 23 minutes? Sounds like he had a reflux encounter after eating one too many burritos before bed.

Two things that I heard him say at the beginning that stood out were the mentioning of Jonah in the fish's(whale's) belly and he believed that it was literally hell Jonah was in. Having this confirmed by some guy whom he mentions, this "affirms" his story. I guess then, we can assume that an animals stomach is a porthole to Hades? Plus God, on occassion, gives a free passage to damnation....?

The second comment is when he refers to Paul's testimony of seeing heaven (another "see, it can happen" example). Though Paul said he didn't know if he left his body or not, this guy had it "confirmed" by God that he did go there and it wasn't a dream. How does he know that God said that? I guess the same way every new age charismatic states that God reveals new things to them all the time.

And, of course, since there is money involved, who wants to recant their story when there is an easy cash flow?

David

 

That ended when the Bible was completed.