Were Adam and Eve mortal before the fall?

TP argues that we should not consider the time details of Gen 1-2:3 to be "real" or "Accurate" we should view them as we might view poetry or a song - (song of Solomon perhaps). Where the story is not real at all - it is simply word picture -- giving us impressions and principles but not actual factual details.

I refuse to claim with TP that "The ACCOUNT" of the creation of the heavens and the earth as "not real". Basically I reject atheist darwinism AND I reject the notion that God's summary of that literal 7 day week given both in Gen 1-2:3 and in Exodus 20:8-11 "is not accurate". Having said that - I do admit that the majority of Christians "today" favor some form of TP's argument. Many even argue that Gen 2 is written by another author and contradictory to Gen 1-2:3 as IF in writing Gen 2 they could not have seen Gen 1?

In Christ,

Bob

 

GE -

Never would I argue that we have TWO chronological sequences in Gen 1 and 2 -- we have only ONE!! It is found in Gen 1-2:3 with a specific sequence framed in literal explicit time units!

The Gen 2:5 through Gen 3 story is not given in a defined timeline and covers events BOTH in day 3 and in Day 6 and going beyond.

God does not view the fall of mankind and "call it good" as you seem to imagine.

In Exodus 20 God gives us the "THEREFORE" of WHY He blessed and sanctified the Sabbath for mankind. "THEREFORE the Lord BLESSED the Sabbath AND made it holy" - and the text says NOTHING about "Mankind fell and God wanted a symbol of salvation THEREFORE God blessed the Sabbath day AND made it holy" as you have often imagined.

Failing to find your teaching in scripture you willingly "make stuff up"

And in that we see a clear explanation of our differences on this point.

In Christ,

Bob

 

GE:
Thanks Bob, for explaining. I think I believe much the same as you, although to me it adds to the value of these passages to also appreciate them as being 'poetry' or a 'hymnal'. It detracts not - why should it? Facts and truths are best contained in divine poetry, for me.

 

GE:
In one of your previous posts, I found this, "tragic_pizza
Ummm... no, there are two. One is found in Genesis 1, and the second begins in Genesis 2. Read it, you'll see.

So... agreeing that both accounts are theologically true, which one is historically and scientifically accurate?

The FIRST is the ONE AND ONLY chronological SEQUENCE where the actual TIME for each event AS well as its sequence is presented.

The SECOND PRESUMES the first and INSERTS into that the institution of marriage and the "rules" that are later tested in the "fall of mankind".

Your two posts seem rather irrecocileable to me.

 

Wherein do you find the idea of 'later', in this your remark,
"The SECOND PRESUMES the first (ONE AND ONLY CHRONOLOGICAL) and INSERTS into that the institution of marriage and the "rules" that are later tested in the "fall of mankind".

 

Both 'accounts' are accounts of the creation - not of some things "later"!

 

'You willingly "make stuff up"', like this here idea and word of your own: "later"!

 

obviously since there is NO mention of the fall on DAY SIX (read Gen 1 instead of "making stuff up") and THEN "God pronounces it GOOD" we can see clearly that the fall of mankind (GEN 3 NOT 1 and NOT 2) takes place AFTER creation week!

And since God summarizes it AGAIN in Ex 20:8-11 in that exact SAME way ...

Just stating the obvious sir.

In Christ,

Bob

 

My question is - where is the "hymnal" in the 7 day chronological sequence? Is the Birth of Christ "mere poetry"?

Is the act of God in creating the world in 7 literal days merely a "form of poetry - not actual fact"?

I don't think you believe that - but many try to insert the term "poetry" into Gen 1 as another term for "not factually accurate".

In Christ,

Bob

 

Something I am studying on at the moment.

Facinating.

Death entered in because of sin.

It's great that people think.

This is a very complex one.

David

 

The poetry is Hebrew, not English.

and if you think I'm saying that, by extension, the birth of Christ is poetry, you're shockingly mistaken.

Don't put up silly straw men and try to redirect the conversation in order to bolster your position.

 

It would be nice to actually get an answer to both questions asked.


In Christ,

Bob

 

I don't know the answer to the second question, [needless ad hominems removed]
Better?

 

GE:
Each time you get so silly, I'm shocked and offended at the sight of your "In Christ, Bob"!

 

BobRyan, are you in 'official capacity' representing your denomination on this Board? If so, I'm sure it was their worst choice possible.

 

Originally Posted by BobRyan
Dumping bricks on your head for making that kind of post is very appropriate - now back to the topic.



that is too funny

 

GE:
Not even an unfallen and sinless being has eternal life in itself - that is the sole attribute of God, as we may read in Timothy, for example. Every creature is mortal without life every moment of its existence being imparted; even inanimate things like matter, only exists and keeps on existing by the favour and will of God.
That is only the beginning and as it was, "in the beginning". The greater Reality lies further in the revelation of God's will and love towards His created works. Nothing would ever have come into being, and nothing ever would have remained -- from the start --- were it not for Jesus Christ, and were it not He triumphed over death and nihil --- whether sin msut be implied herein, or not. Jesus has life and he who has the Son, has life. A creation without Jesus Christ who would and who did vanquish death, could never exist a moment in time. It's all unthinkable. Sin made it a little bit more understandable, but it explains but very little!

 

Nihil?

Great thoughts.

Death holds no fear when we are with God, thats all I will say just now.

The earth is a certain size, it could not contain eternal reproduction.

Facinating, seeds an all, and Paul's use of the common knowledge about them. Also the fact that 'no eye has seen or ear heard what God has prepared for them that love Him', keeping this in mind with the obvious Soveriengty of God and the fact that He is Glorifying Himself, whether we like it or not, but as recipients of Grace, lets just praise His Great Name

The earth and everything in it is passing away, but the man who does the will of God Abides forever.

David

 

GE - in your endless efforts to "make stuff up" that is surely one of the most humorous!

:thumbs: :applause:

May I make a suggestion? Have a shot at this -

:tonofbricks:


someone else has already tried it on this thread - and I thought it might be catching on -