Featured Were the tongues the same?

Point #2...

So if they were doing it wrong, and Paul was teaching the right way of doing it. Then this proves there is a right way of manifesting the Holy Spirit!

This does not prove the tongues were different!

Point #3...

How does this prove the tongues were different? Are you saying now that the baptism of the Holy Spirit does not happen in Corinthians and now?
You are asking the wrong questions and they only disprove your theory!

Point #4

This only proves my point that tongues were never for the purpose of spreading the gospel.

It was PETER that preached the Word in Acts that lead 3,000 to Christ...not the ones speaking in tongues.
The ones In Acts 2 were speaking to God the wonderful works...

"Many, O LORD my God, are the wonders you have done. The things you planned for us no one can recount to you; were I to speak and tell of them, they would be too many to declare." (Psalms 40:5)

In Corinthians He was correcting them about using tongues (speaking to God) in the assembly.
"I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified." (1 Corinthians 14:5) He says if it is done in church there needs to be an interpretatin.

Point #5

Again, tongues did not evangelize! Peter did the preaching! The manifestations were given to the church to edify, build up and comfort! To profit all...again this does not prove they were different!

#6...

How would there be limitations...it was the first time they spoke in tongues. YOu are grasping at straws with this one!

Now answer my question...Who were the 120 speaking too? You avoided this question on the other thread too, Why?

 

Is There An Interpreter Present???

:laugh:I hear people speaking in tongues every week!!!When my wife and I go to the local Mexican Restaurant for our weekly dinner after Wednesday Nite Prayer meeting we hear the employees there speaking in tongues EVERY TIME WE GO. Hearing them speak does me no good at all since I don't speak Spanish. It is nonsensical gibberish to me since I have NO UNDERSTANDING. The only thing that edifies me there is that wonderful plate of food they bring me!!:laugh: At least they can make sense to each other about the messed up order the gringo and his senorita just tried to order.:wavey:

Bro.Greg

 

John does not want me to hijack his thread but I will reply to this...
Who were they speaking to before they came, and what did the foreigners hear? Because I see Peter preaching the word...and that is what lead them to Christ..not the tongues.

...and what sign is it?

 

I should have clarified the ones mentioned in the Bible!!!! :thumbs:

 

Well, If we have debated this in other threads, then we have said all there is to say!

We are not going to change each other! You or anyone elses UNBELIEF can not take away what I know is from God. Only the HOly Spirit can open up our understanding. I went to Him asking and believing...and I received!

Tongue along with anything else concerning the Holy Spirit is supernatual! It is beyond our own natual ability (apart from God).

Tongues all through the Bible comes from the same Holy Spirit! There are several benefits from it! If you do not have the Holy Spirit...you can not manifest Him!

I just pray that this will get everyone to dig a little bit deeper! I have said all there is to say and answered repeatedly concerning tongues. So everyone knows what I believe and why! Once I have experienced the benefits of being in a church that manifest the power of the Holy Spirit....I can not go back! Baptist churches everywhere are taking a closer look into this and realizing there is more to it than what they were taught!

I have seen more people come to Christ, deliverance from addictions and lifestyles. More people fall back in Love with the one that Paid it all! Just by allowing the Power of the Holy Spirit back in there sanctuary! That is enought for me to know it is from God!...A form of godliness without the power is dead!

 

Some people in the Corinthian Church were like you. They spoke in tongues, not knowing what they were saying. And in some cases it wasn't good.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

What they were doing: they were saying: "Jesus is accursed," and thinking that they were speaking by the Spirit of God.
You are doing the same thing. You don't know what you are saying and could be calling Christ accursed, just as some of the Corinthians did. How do you know if you are?? Any guarantees?

The Holy Spirit always works through the mind, with understanding. He never bypasses the mind. Once you bypass the mind you have given your mind over to the devil. That is not of God. Bypass your mind and you leave yourself open to demons. It is a terrible place to be in. Why do you think there are commands in the Bible:
Search the Scriptures.
Study to make thyself approved.
Meditate day and night on the Word of God.
Take heed unto thyself and to the doctrine.
Think on these things.
Bring every thought into captivity.

We are never to bypass our mind, leave it open, yield it, etc. But that is what people who speak in tongues do. They leave it open to demonic influence.

Your experience is not of the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit does not work that way.

IF "Tongues speaking" is supernatural, then it is supernatural because it is of the paranormal; demonic, not of God. Otherwise it is of a psychological manipulation of the mind. As you said, Bypass the conscious part of the mind and allow the subconscious to take over. It is dangerous, opening yourself up to other influences, but not necessarily demonic. It simply can lead that direction.

Tongues ceased in the first century.
The Bible proves this.
History proves this.
Our present day theology and activities proves this. No one speaks in Biblical tongues today--no one. You have not pointed to anyone that has manifested the gift of Biblical tongues. Why do Charismatic missionaries have to learn foreign languages? I will tell you. They don't have the gift of tongues.

What you believe is in the category of heresy.

You can't go back because you have allowed experience to be more important than doctrine. In fact your experience is teaching and controlling your beliefs. That is truly sad.

Why would Baptist churches want to look into the heresies they have already refuted and repudiated so many times already. It is all old hat to them.

If any of that has come to pass, it has been in spite of tongues, not because of it.

You haven't read the Bible close enough. God does not live in sanctuaries. Actually "sanctuaries" are "bird baths." Some sanctuaries are set apart for other wild life. :smilewinkgrin:
But the Holy Spirit indwells believers, not buildings.

Tongues comes, much of the time, straight from the pit of hell.
Is yours any different? Can you prove it? How do you know it is from God?
You don't even know what you are saying and yet you maintain it is from God. That is quite an amazing trick. Satan is very good at playing tricks. He is called "the Great Deceiver."

 

You need to read it again! NO MAN that speaks by the Spirit of God (tongues=speaking in the spirit, praying in the spirit)called Jesus accursed. You are speaking the perfect will of God,. YOu can not call Jesus accursed in tongues becasue it is the Spirit that gives the utterance. (Acts 2:4)


[quote0The Holy Spirit always works through the mind, with understanding. He never bypasses the mind. Once you bypass the mind you have given your mind over to the devil. That is not of God. Bypass your mind and you leave yourself open to demons. It is a terrible place to be in. Why do you think there are commands in the Bible:
Search the Scriptures.
Study to make thyself approved.
Meditate day and night on the Word of God.
Take heed unto thyself and to the doctrine.
Think on these things.
Bring every thought into captivity.

We are never to bypass our mind, leave it open, yield it, etc. But that is what people who speak in tongues do. They leave it open to demonic influence.[/quote]
Paul says we give thanks well even if we do not know what we are saying! We just do not edify the church! All your debates contradict scripture. The Spirit works through our spirit! Our mind allows it to manifest or unbelief (through the mind) will quench it!

When you get to know the Holy Spirit! He will lead you to the truth. Search the scriptures and you will find he can not be put in a box like most relligions want to do!

Again, be careful...What God is doing today, not to call it demonic!

I have explained this in another thread! You have the wrong idea of tongues! It is supernatural, a language that does not have to be learned! I know a lot of missionaries that speak in tongue, but they do not use it to spread the gospel, because that is not the purpose of it!

ANd you are anyone else has not proved in SCRIPTURES it has ceased! Only your lack of experience has proved it to yourself! UNBLLIEF in what the Bible says about it! You have to believe before you experience it! Faith comes first!

No, my experience backs up my doctrine! You do not experience because you do not believe. (I am not saying you are not saved. But doctrine in the Bible has to be believed by faith..believing before you see it. You see it in the word...you believe it...you live it!)

Maybe they are allowing God to open their eyes! I know I did! I went to God seeking truth! ....and don't tell me my father would teach me a lie! Make sure that what you believe is not just because man has taught it to you in seminary. Sincerely search this out!

You guys are the ones that are hung up on tongues, I was wanting to talk about the whole 3 chapters in Cor. I never said tongues accomplished this! I said the freedom to let the Holy Spirit work did it!

Wow! you really miss the points on purpose don't you! I agree that we are the sanctuary of the Holy Spirit! But we as people meet in a building that we call the sanctuary. Because we carry the Holy Spirit into the building!

No, because I have prayed as God said and ask for interpretation...and he has given it to me! Awesome! If it was of satan it would not lead me closer to my Father! Since the baptism in the Holy Spirit..I have more boldness, more joy, more peace..do not get offended. And have experience things I have never experienced in the spirit! Not to mentioned a zeal for the Word of God!

DHK and others that do not believe the Holy Spirit manifest the same as Cor. 12 says....
I have been where you are! My heart goes out to you! Because their is life (salvation) and there is the more abundant! Seek, knock and ask! Our God is able and faithful~

 

Awaken -- if they weren't different tongues in Acts 2, then why did the hearers ask how they heard them speaking in different languages?

If it's not different tongues in 1 Cor 14, then why do we see Paul reference a single tongue in verses 13 and 14, but multiple tongues in verses 5-6, 10, and 21?

And finally, you have repeatedly said that tongues weren't used for preaching; while that may be true, Paul tells us that using tongues is for witnessing to the unsaved (1 Cor 14:22). Tongues are not for we who believe.

 

Could it be that in vs 13 and 14 he was speaking as an individual speaking only one language? Verses 5-6, 10 and 21 is because he is speaking to ALL, and different people can speak in different languages?
When I speak in tongues it is one language at a time...but each time it could change to a different language.

And how do you see that the sign is for the unbeliever? I posted this in another thread about the sign to an unbeliever. Tongues are not to convince the believer! They already believe! But they are to be done through a believer...because only a believer in the NT has the Holy Spirit, right?

In Acts 2 The believers were speaking! The unbelievers heard! This got their attention (a sign) because some said "what meaneth this" If tongues were preaching the gospel then they did not understand the message of the gospel! It was Peter that preached the Word and that is what lead many to Christ. The tongues were magnifying God (praising) just like in Acts 10. The tongues are speaking to God, unless in a church assembly the message is interpreted.

 

Exactly. So tongues can be different languages.

Because that's what scripture says in 1 Cor 14:22; tongues are for a sign to the unbeliever.

Of course; but the question is why were they granted the power to speak in tongues they didn't know themselves, but were known by others?

Right; it sure got their attention, didn't it?

As I mentioned above, and what Paul emphasizes in 1 Cor 14, the question is what is the purpose of tongues. In Acts 2, the purpose wasn't to praise God; it was to draw others to hear the gospel. In 1 Cor 14:22, Paul makes it absolutely clear, just as you have, that believers don't need other tongues; but that they're a sign to unbelievers, to draw them so they may hear the gospel. And what more powerful way to draw an unbeliever is there than for that unbeliever to hear you speaking in their native tongue, when they know there's no way you should be able to speak their language?

 

Maybe you can start a thread on the "Baptism in the Holy Spirit" and the "fulness of the Holy Spirit". I can not say what all Charismatics believe about the Holy Spirit...I can only share what I have learned and experienced. Raised and still in a Baptist church...but believe the manifestation of the Holy Spirit was given to the church on the day of Pentecost and as far as I can read...is still here!

That is great! Many have come to the cross through great evangalism! But what is missing in most churches is after we get them to the cross (salvation)we need to teach them how to walk in the Power of the resurrected Lord!

Never denied this! See my comment above!

No, not late comers! They have been here throughout history!
If you search out commentaries printed prior to the 20th century, you will search in vain for a clearly stated cessationist view. The supernatural gifts and miraculous things waned during the Middle Ages, but so did the doctrine of justification by faith. I believe the church lost a lot during Dark ages. But to say that God no longer operates today by pointing to the dry spiritual season of the Middle Ages is to give validity to that time of spiritual decline. However, the Reformation brought a revovery of truth. During the dark time some of the fringe groups tried to maintain NT Christianity. The church at Rome often viewed those groups as heretics. Baptist find their roots among those fringe groups.

No, again you are wrong...I have never said the rest is falsehood! That is why I am still in a Baptist church! They have a lot of truth! Just because I believe that the gifts are still here does not mean what you are implying here.

Sorry if I come across prideful...I do not mean to! I do feel very strong about the manifestations of the Holy Spirit and if in defending my belief I have come across prideful..again, I am sorry! My heart is to share this so others can walk in it...just as I want them to come to the cross! I also want them to live the abundant life..the life of Power in the Holy Spirit!

 

THis I can agree with!

But you can not ignore that the ones at Pentecost, Cornelius house were magnifying God, praising God, speaking to God! Not preaching.

Also if you look close at Chapter 19 when Paul came across those those that believed, but were not baptized in the name of Jesus (by Jesus with the Holy Spirit, because only Jesus can baptize in the Holy Spirit) The spake with tongues AND prophesied. Prophesy can be used to proclaim the gospel. But tongues here are the same as Acts 2 and Acts 10. The tongues are all the same for the same purpose...they are speaking to God! Prophesy here was speaking to the people.

Tongues is a language and it does get the attention of the ones hearing in their own language. But I have also seen it done where and unbeliever is in the assembly and tongues and interpretaion given. He himself did not understand until the interpretation was given, but it moved him to respond to God. He still had to be instructed on how to give his life to God! But the tongues got his attention!

 

I have to disagree, because you appear to be steadfast on the point that the purpose of tongues is "to speak to God." That directly contradicts what scripture tells us. I'll point it out again: 1 Cor 14:22, Paul tells us what the purpose of tongues is -- a sign for the unbeliever. Anyone who uses tongues in any other fashion is not using the gift according to scripture.

You mention a couple of other chapters in Acts; these, too, bear out what I'm saying because all of these were public, and thus, publicly witnessed.

Finally, remember what you yourself have written here: in Acts 2, everyone who heard them speak in tongues understood them to be speaking of the wonderful works of God. If there are those that are "speaking in tongues," but are being interpreted as giving reassurances, or warnings, or something other than speaking about the works of God--in essence, using tongues to "edify the believers" when scripture is clear that tongues are not for the believers--then one *must* consider carefully where the source is coming from. Remember, Jesus said that there will be many who say"Lord, Lord"; but He will never know them.

 

Ok, then we disagree! Because I do not believe they are for a SIGN to the believer..the believer does not need a sign.

Answer this...Who were the unbelievers in Acts 10?

 

Just A Point...

Bro.Awaken...I have asked all these questions and prayed to God in days past asking for these gifts (before I learned better of them) believing that God would indeed impart them to me if it was His will and for His Glory. In short....he did NOT impart any of those sign gifts to me. I wanted the truth and sought it for His sake and glory....and He gave it to me. He also gave me (thankfully) the gift of discernment so I would not be led away in error. I am humbly thankful for that...and I pray the same for you.

Now,that said, I believe that the sign gifts have ceased in our generation due to the fact that we have the FINISHED and completed 66 books of the Bible and the proliferation of spoken(via radio,internet,TV,etc.) AND printed copies of it available throughout most of the known world. In 1 Cor.13:8 Paul declared under inspiration that tongues would cease and that charity/(love) would never fail. That (love)is the gift that clearly testifies to the presence of the Holy Spirit in the life of any true believer. I draw your attention to the 5th chapter of Galatians to the passage beginning in verse 16 and continuing through verse26. This is the clearest passage in the Bible about the presence (or not) of the Holy Spirit in the life of a believer. The attributes (fruit) of the Spirit's presence in our lives are not taught or learned behaviour (in my opinion) but rather, they are IMPARTED to every believer who will surrender His life to the Lord Jesus Christ. Knowing somewhat about MYSELF and what I am like and capable of....I would be the first one to register surprise if I was ever told I exhibited ANY of these fruits or attributes of our God and Saviour and His precious Spirit. I pray that each of us in Christ may one day come to the place where the world around us sees Christ in us. If they do,then the things listed in Gal.5:22-24 are what they will see. I don't believe it will be tongues (in our day). If we would walk in the POWER of God's Spirit that is what the world (and our brothers and sisters in Christ) would see! Would to God that it would be true of us all.

Bro.Greg:thumbsup: