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What’s involved in really understanding the New Testament?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Samuels, Mar 22, 2017.

  1. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    1 – We must have the precious Holy Spirit indwelling us
    “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name,
    He will teach you all things …” (John 14:26, NKJV)


    2 – We must be hearing the still small voice of the Holy Spirit
    “For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.” (Romans 8:14, NASB)
    The NASB is the most literal translation that I’m aware of.
    IMO, most other translations have totally missed the correct verb tense in this verse!
    As a result, some believers think that when they were “led” by the Spirit, it was a one-time deal.

    3 – We really need to understand Paul’s method of writing to the churches
    IMO, during his 17 years in the desert regions, Paul was trained by God how to deal with the churches!
    He was told to be extremely tactful in presenting his warnings so as to NOT discourage the sheep.
    Especially the new believers! … He was told to mix these warnings in with copious amounts of
    edifications, exhortations, encouragements, blessings, promises, etc. … but he ended up with
    making some exaggerations and hopeful pronouncements, some of them being close to lies.
    Yes, the warnings are “somewhat hidden” amongst all of the positive stuff … with the result that
    many believers (because of their biases, false doctrines, etc.) do NOT even notice the warnings!

    4 – We need to understand WHO is being addressed in the letters to the churches
    Believers should be NOT thinking, “Everything written to the churches is about me!”
    This is most certainly NOT true for believers who are sinning habitually (without repentance).
    Habitual sinners are NOT living according to the Spirit, and are NOT being led by the Spirit.
    Habitual sinners are NOT putting to death the deeds of the body, and hence will NOT live.
    Habitual sinners are NOT walking according to the Spirit,
    so therefore they are NOT “in Christ”, but ARE under condemnation.
    Habitual sinners are NOT part of the “faithful” who Paul wrote to in Ephesus and Colossae.

    5 – We need to understand HOW spiritual truths are supposed to be taught to believers
    In point 3, we see why many of the truths (esp. the warning ones) are not obviously stated.
    Yes indeed, Jesus’ sheep are at all different levels of spiritual understanding and maturity.
    The Holy Spirit is the One who reveals spiritual truths to those who are open and ready to receive them.
    God intended that the NT churches would show subsequent generations how they should teach believers.
    The 5-fold ministry (Ephesians 4:11) were anointed by God to teach both the basic and the deeper truths.
    IMO, all of these God-appointed church leaders were anointed with of the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
    These special leaders were LED by God’s Spirit in what truths to teach, and when, where, to whom, etc.
    However, church history is filled with church leaders who were appointed by themselves or by other men!
    And the result has been dead churches that teach “the doctrines of men” (what Paul warned about).

    6 – We need to read between the lines, connect the dots, think outside the box, etc.
    We have to be OPEN to receive spiritual truth, which may NOT be what we were taught previously
    Because, we have been put in a small narrow box which contains at least a few false doctrines!

    We need to combine all of the NT, e.g. “the just shall live by faith” and “faith without works is dead”.

    Here is one of my favorite examples, which is totally missed by most believers.

    Romans 6 is all about those believers in Rome who continue to be slaves of sin …
    “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!” (6:1-2)
    “What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!” (6:15)


    Paul says it is critical that they become slaves of obedience (instead of being slaves of sin) …
    “Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin leading to death (#2288),
    or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?” (6:16)

    “death” Strong’s #2288 “thanatos” – “the separation of man from God …
    Rom 5:12, John 5:24, 1 John 3:14” (from Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words)

    He says they WERE slaves of sin, but now they ARE slaves of righteousness (potentially) …
    “But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin …
    having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness” (6:17-18)


    Next, he instructs them to present their bodies as slaves of righteousness …
    “… so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.” (6:19)
    With the desired result being “… holiness, and the end, everlasting life.” (6:22)

    Then, Paul gives his final warning, but softens it by reminding them why it’s critical to be found “in Christ”.
    “For the wages of sin is death (#2288), but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (6:23)

    Here’s what’s going on in Romans 6
    Paul knows that NOW they are no longer in bondage to sin (6:18), i.e. they are no longer slaves of sin,
    because they have been given a new nature (2 Corinthians 5:17).
    But, because of their sinning lifestyle, he sees the great need to inform them (remind them?)
    it is critical that they choose who they will be slaves of NOW … sin or obedience!
    They are FREE TO CHOOSE to be slaves of sin, which results in eternal death (6:16, 6:21, 6:23),
    or to be slaves of obedience which leads to righteousness, holiness, eternal life (6:16, 6:19, 6:22).

    In the NT, believers are given many conditional “IF” choices … and we should
    realize that both the positive and negative results of one’s choices are possible.
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Lots of sound thinking in the OP. But lets review:

    Since the Holy Spirit inspired the New Testament, when we read, study and meditate on that Word, some of His truths will be apparent, the "milk" or fundamentals of the gospel. Total Spiritual blindness is a myth.

    Non-believers can be "influenced" by the Holy Spirit, such as when a born anew believer witnesses to them and shares the Word with them.

    Nothing Paul wrote in our New Testament was "close to a lie." Every bit of it is inspired and profitable for study.

    Yes, some professing Christians are not saved, or not yet saved. That is why we are taught to evaluate ourselves at communion to see if we are "of the faith."

    Even if a teacher is born anew, he or she remains able to miss the mark. But all of us are to study to show ourselves approved, rightly handling the word.

    We need to teach what the word says, not what we may read between the lines.

    Once saved, always saved, but if we miss the mark our worthless ministry will earn no rewards, so when we enter heaven, it will not be abundantly, but rather like one escaping from a fire, with our rewards burned up.
     
  3. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    Sorry, but I'm afraid you are missing some of the realities of the NT.
    Some of the deeper realities, which I am trying to teach.

    For example, in the OP we read Paul saying to those
    who continue to be slaves of sin:
    "you became slaves of righteousness" (Romans 6:18).
    Okay, this is theoretically speaking ... They have the potential to be such.
    But, in reality ... They are very FAR from being slaves of righteousness!
    Perhaps they became slaves of righteousness in the hidden realms of the Spirit?
    But, nowhere else!
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The natural receives NOT the things of God though, as they do NOT have the mind and Spirit to receive them!
    A person without the Holy Spirit can read and know what the Bible said, but NOT what it means!
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    You MUST discern when the Bible speaks of those lost and those saved!
    As all of those passages you hang theology on pretty much refer to those either lost or merely professing Christ!
     
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    To interpret "you became slaves of righteousness" to mean "you potentially may become slaves of righteousness" is not
    "a deeper reality" but simply saying Paul's teaching is "close to a lie." And that sir is fake theology.
     
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    We have been through this before. You simply repeat your bogus claim and do not address that actual rebuttal of your fake theology

    To say that natural (unregenerate fallen people) cannot receive "the things of God" does not mean cannot receive "ALL the things of God." The natural cannot receive spiritual meat, but can receive spiritual milk. .
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Paul was speaking to those who were saved, but some were still in infant maturity, others more adult, NONE were unsaved that received spiritual things!
     
  9. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    Write your reply ... Okay, I'm speechless!
     
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    More fake theology. Paul spoke to the newly born again as if they were "men of flesh" using spiritual milk.
    You can deny it till the cows come how, but 1 Corinthians 3:1 is plain as day. Therefore, men of flesh can indeed understand some things of God - spiritual milk.

    One of the basics of understanding scripture is if it makes sense, seek no other sense. If we revise it to fit our per-conceptions,
    i.e. we cannot actually be slaves of righteousness, since we stumble and fall short of the mark, then we miss the mark all the more.

    If you are born anew, all your sins, past, present and future are forgiven, and being justified, our actions are "just as if we had not sinned." And that sir is why we are "slaves of righteousness."
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Paul NEVER wrote anywhere in His Epistles that any unsaved person could receive any spiritual truth from the scriptures, as that requires them to have a new heart/mind/nature in order to do that!
     
  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    More fake theology. In 1 Corinthians 3:1, Paul teaches that "men of flesh" and "newly born anew" Christians, who have yet to mature under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, can indeed receive Spiritual Milk.

    Since the Holy Spirit inspired the New Testament, when we read, study and meditate on that Word, some of His truths will be apparent, the "milk" or fundamentals of the gospel. Total Spiritual blindness is a myth, built on "reading between the lines" rather than the plain meaning of Scripture.
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Paul was speaking of 3 clasees of persons there, unsaved, saved babes, saved matured, and the lost cannot receive divine truth, as blind it due to their sinful natures!
     
  14. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    As I see it, there are a trinity of things required to
    understand the precious spiritual Truths in the NT:
    -- the new nature
    -- the indwelling Holy Spirit
    -- the word of God (esp. the NT)

    Further understanding may be gained if one has the baptism with the Holy Spirit
    and some of the 9 spiritual power gifts (1 Cor 12), esp. the gift of wisdom.
     
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Matthew 13 makes clear most people (soils 2,3 and 4) can understand spiritual milk, the fundamentals of the gospel. Some people lose their natural ability to understand spiritual milk, either by hardening their own hearts by the practice of sin, or the action of God (Romans 11:7)/ Now in order to mature, to grow in respect to salvation, we must learn the spiritual meat discerned only with the aid of our indwelt Helper.
     
  16. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    Caution .. be careful who you think are Bible scholars!

    Bible scholars all have been so BIG on John 8:58 where Jesus said He existed before Abraham did.
    Oh, they have said for decades (centuries?), that this verse proves Jesus was/is God.
    Utter nonsense! … Multitudes of angels also existed before Abraham!

    They would have been far better off stressing John 8:24 where Jesus claimed to be “I AM”, the God of Exodus 3.
    Please note: there is no “He” after “I AM” in the original Greek in either verse.
    And ditto for about 6 other of Jesus' "I AM" statements in the gospels.

    Just an example.

    All you can trust are the Scriptures and the Holy Spirit.
    No church or denomination, that's for sure!
    They major in "the doctrines of men" that Paul warned about.
    Seems I like to repeat a lot of Paul's warnings.
    He was trained in the Spirit for 17 years in the desert regions
    before really beginning his ministry.
     
    #16 Samuels, Apr 12, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2017
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