1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

What About Unions

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by OldRegular, Feb 2, 2013.

  1. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    64
    Just because "factcheck" said something doesn't make it true. Just because Governor Palin said something doesn't make it a lie. It is shameful for you to accuse this lady of lying when you don't know the truth. I have posted sections of Obamacare that describe the function of a certain board. Obamacare does not call this board a "death panel" but when it can decide who gets what treatment then they have the power of life and death.

    Last year the company from which I retired cancelled my secondary healthcare and prescription drug coverage, instead providing a small stipend which will not even pay the cost of supplemental healthcare.

    After years of Medicare part D I find out that one medication my wife takes requires "step therapy", that is "try everything else and if nothing works then it will be approved". Strenuous effort by her doctor solved the problem but it has to be repeated on an annual basis.

    I was at my pulmonary doctor last week. Upon sharing experiences with his nurse she told me they had 31 cases where they had to work to keep patients on the prescribed medicine. People are different and their response to drugs are different. What works for one may not work for another. The government has no business trying to practice medicine.

    You democrats have cried for years in justifying abortion that the government has no business in the bedroom. They certainly have no business practicing medicine.

    Incidentally if McCain had not been such a "wuss" and listened to Governor Palin the country might have been spared Obama.
     
    #21 OldRegular, Feb 4, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 4, 2013
  2. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    64
    You have been around democrats too long convicted1. Please don't compare Ryan with your democrat politicians.

    Don't know about the Kansas City paper but Media Matters is a far left piece of trash talk and is not an acceptable resource.

    Of course one thing you fail to understand convicted1. You and like minded democrats have come to accept the dictatorship of Barak Hussein Obama. Ryan is not a dictator even if he were president and the $15,000 is certainly not engraved in stone.

    Actually given the medical expenses of my wife and I over the last few years I believe $30,000 would be great. Also you must understand convicted1. The whole idea of insurance is to spread the burden. The pool for people on Medicare would start at age 65 where the expenses are not likely that great. So %30,000 for two people might be great. Who knows at this time. It is certain that no far left trash talking paper would ever tell the truth since they, like Obama, want a Marxist style government!

    And now back to Unions!
     
  3. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    64
    That is false. I frequently call the Republican Party the Stupid Party. However, they have two things they going for them compared to democrats.

    1. They are strongly opposed to the slaughter of the unborn.

    2. They generally support the Constitution and are, therefore, opposed to a Marxist style government.
     
  4. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    64
    Yes but you support the party that is the death party. That is sort of like the Germans in WWII who were against the death camps but nevertheless were strong supporters of old Barak, sorry Adolph Hitler.

    Since when has God delegated "life and death" to you or to Barak Hussein Obama?
     
  5. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,457
    Likes Received:
    1,575
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Are you guys really fighting the battle of .... Which political party is better.....when you know both are corrupt?

    Im not going into detail except 2 observations.

    1. Cicero stated that no politician is born....they are excreted.

    2. Our government was made up of people who fought with one another all the time & some even would occasionally kill one another (like Burr & Hamilton). But we must remember that through it all, we are all Americans & we have been blessed by God far beyond other Nations. But blessings that are given can also be taken away. God' s prospective on life, liberty, freedom etc must not be trifled with by any political movement....it is ultimately God we serve.
     
  6. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    64
    The administrator has got to find a smilie with a wagging finger. And i am not talking about the middle finger either.

    I have no illusions about the character of some in the Republican party, especially S/N buddy and I will concede the Republican party is the "stupid" party. That being said I believe the leadership of the democrat party are radical leftists and there are enough welfare types to give them positions of power.

    Furthermore i don't doubt that there are many Republicans who support the slaughter of the unborn but thankfully they are a minimum. convicted 1 talks about end of life care. I concede it is a serious problem but once the state starts deciding when the life of someone is no longer worth the cost where will it end, involuntary euthanasia as is being practiced in some European countries now.
     
  7. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,457
    Likes Received:
    1,575
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Brother ....dont think its not happening now.... only its the insurance companies & Medicare making those decisions. Its happened to me with my mother. Here is the "Telling Question" How old is he/She? & its over 65 YO , with it comes the pat answer..... "well they have lived a long life" ..... And Im pretty certain that since Convicted works in the Health Care Industry, that he already knows that.

    Oh as a Sub Note: Check out voluntary Euthanasia laws in the state of Oregon
     
    #27 Earth Wind and Fire, Feb 4, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 4, 2013
  8. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    64
    And just when does voluntary euthanasia become involuntary.

    We have a serious problem in this country and it will get worse.

    My mother lived to be almost 97 and was mentally alert during that time.. She had reasonable good health in her senior years until she had a heart attack at the age of 94-95. In the following months she had a problem with angina, required oxygen much of the time, and on occasion had fluid buildup in her lungs, requiring hospitalization. On one visit the ER doctor simply shuffled her aside to let her die. My niece who was living with my mother contacted her doctor who got her the proper treatment.

    In my opinion decisions such as this should not be within the purview of an ER doctor. I realize there are times when further medical treatment is useless but the withholding of that treatment must be with the consent of the patient or the family with the aid of the patient's doctor.

    And how did we get so far away from the discussion of unions?
     
  9. billreber

    billreber New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2005
    Messages:
    461
    Likes Received:
    0
    Back to the OP! My only personal experience with a union was between 9 and 12 years ago. I was forced/required to join the union to work for my employer. The negotiated contract had a section concerning health care. The first year, union members paid about 25 percent of the cost of the premiums (plus deductibles, etc). By the third and final year of the contract, union members were paying nearly half, because the Company had "won" a limit on how much they would pay of any increases in the premium. When the meeting for discussion of things to be discussed for a renewal of the contract came up, the union leadership refused to discuss with management the out-of-pocket costs of health care by union members!

    Needless to say, the union was thrown out when the vote was taken nine months later. When either Management or Unions stop listening to and caring for the needs of employees, something is wrong and change s needed! We got a large raise and are now still paying only about 25 percent of the total health care premiums. Even some of the strongest union supporters then are now talking about how "we" did the right thing.

    BTW, at about the same time as my experiences, UPS renegotiated their contract. The union boasted about the "victory" they had, changing a lot of "part-time" jobs into "full-time" jobs. Only one problem emerged -- half of the "part-time" employees lost their jobs! I don't remember the actual numbers, but it seems that 13,000 part-timers were out of work, and the union boasted about it (indirectly, of course)!

    I will not try to deny that unions have done a lot of good for employees in the past. I see too many unions today that have become worse than the employers.

    Bill :tear:
     
  10. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,012
    Likes Received:
    28
    I agree that unions can be, and some are, corrupt. I think at the local level, it's not as bad. I have seen through history what good they've done. Without the "threats" of a union, I think non-union companies could treat their workers in a more unfair fashion.

    Where I work at, it's non-union. Since I started there, my monthly health care cost has went from $108.00 per month, to $154.00. Plus my dental has went up some. Our out-of-pocket ductible is $2,500, or maybe $2,750....it's the wifey and I, and we've never met our deductible, so our insurance pays for about 50-55% of what is done, and we pay the rest.


    The last job I had, it was a union hospital through the USW. We paid $80.00 a month, our deductible for both of us was $750.00, and our prescription plan was great. We paid a max of $30.00 for a prescription, and that was if it was "the real mccoy", and not a generic.


    The reason why I'm so pro-union is because of what dad went through.....he lost two or three jobs because he tried to help organize some strip mines.
     
  11. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    64
    What democrats, union people, and welfare leeches fail to understand is that nothing is free in this world. A perfect example, though I hesitate to use it in this context, is our Salvation. Folks, especially Baptists, like to say Salvation is free. But that statement is nonsense and simply means we can't see beyond the end of our nose!
     
  12. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,012
    Likes Received:
    28
    Who said anything about something being free? Not I. I was just showing everyone, that in unions, you get a fixed policy rate over the term of the contract. The previous place I worked, every contract was ratified for three years. So for three years, we paid the same for our insurance. Where I work at now, it goes up every year....that's what I was saying.

    Salvation came with a price, which Jesus paid for us.
     
  13. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    64
    So the company had to pick up the increase in cost!
     
  14. Oldtimer

    Oldtimer New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,934
    Likes Received:
    2
    And pass those increased costs on to me when I have to purchase their products. Union workers get the benefits. My pocket gets picked to pick up part of the the tab on someone elses insurance.

    We wouldn't have this mess, if health insurance were handled like private auto insurance. (Look up the history of when health insurance become a deductible business expense.) Big business, unions, insurance companies, and government have used health insurance as carrots to further their own agenda. We see the results today.

    BTW, comparing premiums over a span of years is an invalid argument when comparing union and non-union benefits. For it to be valid, the premium amounts would have to be adusted for the inflation factors involved.
     
Loading...