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What are your thoughts concerning

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by agedman, Nov 28, 2021.

  1. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    There are three or four interpretations of this passage.
    What is your thinking?

    1And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed in the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2She was pregnant and crying out in the pain and agony of giving birth. 3Then another sign appeared in heaven: a huge red dragon with seven heads, ten horns, and seven royal crowns on his heads. 4His tail swept a third of the stars from the sky, tossing them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, ready to devour her child as soon as she gave birth. 5And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was caught up to God and to His throne. 6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where God had prepared a place for her to be nourished for 1,260 days.


     
  2. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Some teach that it is of Mary and Jesus.

    Some teach it is of the Christ and His church.

    Some teach it is the church.

    Some teach it is some blend.

    Some teach it restates the promise from Genesis.

    Some teach….

    What would you teach concerning the passage in the OP?
     
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The interpertation is in and from this book.
    The woman is Israel the child is Christ. The dragon is Satan.
    The 7 heads and 7 crowns are the 7 kings the 5 fallen the one that is and the one to come. etc.
    How many angles can stand on the head of a pin? 2/3rds. 1/3rd are fallen.
     
    #3 37818, Nov 28, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2021
  4. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    One astronomer thinks it also represents the zodiac presentation of the redemption.

    I am not certain if that is ll his thinking encourages, but then, I’m not into stars.
     
    #4 agedman, Nov 28, 2021
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  5. Two Wings

    Two Wings Well-Known Member
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    I abhor astrology. Worship of the stars/et al.

    Astronomy fascinates me. Study of those God-created celestial things we were told by God to use for sign and for season. I encountered a webpage back in August '17 which was discussing this event.

    I completely endorse this depiction as a sign ... "pay attention, folks." This site has a great rundown on the event of 23 Sep '17 ... obviously it wasn't the rapture but I distinctly recall wondering "what if" before I gained the knowledge of being deceived by the "pre trib rapture." But otherwise this fellow has a fantastic description and a direct link to NASA's stellerium program which substantiates this has only happened once before ... just shy of 6000 years ago IIRC ... 5990 in 2017.

    What's uber crazy is the part about Jupiter (the king planet in astronomy parlance) retrograding (astronomical term) in the "womb" of Virgo for PRECISELY 9 months before "passing" through the "birth canal" on 23 Sep 17. Parts of this formation happen regularly (moon at her feet) .... then less frequent (crown of 12 stars; Leo plus Mercury, Mars, Venus) ... but all 'em presented on 23 Sep 17.

    This was the event which drew me to my current journey about eschatology. I have screen shots of my mobile device's star tracker app as it was happening. Very very cool.
     
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  6. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Chapter 12 is the pivotal point of the entire book of Revelation. Until now, although there are certainly great visions of heaven, almost all the action takes place on earth. We have seen the seven churches, the seven seals, seven trumpets and the two witnesses. Now we have a glimpse of the great conflict that lies behind these other happenings.

    The first thing we see is two ‘signs.’ The A.V. translation of ‘wonders’ is rather poor. The Greek word is semeion, from which we get our word ‘semaphore.’ These are signs. It is not the thing itself to which we need to pay attention, but what it signifies. These signs take place in heaven and are invisible to the earth, but they have enormous significance to it.

    Verse 1. ‘Now a great sign appeared in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. Then, being with child, she cried out in labour and in pain to give birth.’

    Who is this woman? We note that she is about to give birth, and if you look at verse 5 and compare it with Psalm 2:9, you will be in no doubt that the child is the Lord Jesus Christ; but who is the woman? Well, the Church of Rome states that this is the Virgin Mary, but where else in the Bible does Mary have anything to do with the sun, moon and stars? Others have suggested that she is the Church, but the Church does not give birth to Christ. No, if we want to find this woman we have to turn to Gen 37:9. Here the sun, moon and stars stand for Jacob and the Patriarchs- the Messianic Line. Noting the hatred of the dragon for the woman and her Son (v.4), we can go back even further to God’s words in Gen. 3:15. “And I will put enmity between you [Satan] and the woman and between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise His heel.” Christ is the Seed of the woman. The woman therefore represents the Messianic Line and the covenant community of all eras. Her children are those ‘who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus’ (v. 17). ‘But Jerusalem above is free which is the mother of us all’ (Gal. 4:26).

    The ‘garland’ upon the woman’s head is a stephanos, a crown or garland of victory. She is clothed with the sun. ‘Notice the difference between the cosmic glory of this woman and the human glitter of the great prostitute’ of 17:4 (Simon Kistemaker). She is about to give birth, which speaks of the coming of Christ to the earth.
     
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  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Israel in the end times facing the wrath of the antichrist!
     
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  8. Two Wings

    Two Wings Well-Known Member
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    aye ...


    there are efforts being made to have that "prepared place" ready. two wings ... of a great eagle. Aye.

    Evac plans of S Korea ... they transfer to the evac of Israel QUITE readily.
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Per the Bible, will be in Petra!
     
  10. Two Wings

    Two Wings Well-Known Member
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    correct.

    Since y'all are a bunch of smarties ...

    there is a place within the range of a 737MAX from Petra (Boshra sp?) which has a nickname "The Jerusalem of (country)"

    there is an outfit which has acquired several 737MAX jets after the debacle ... for a song. Has given me pause to wonder if this wasn't orchestrated by The Almighty from the tragedies ... good things.

    Any guesses where this "place being prepared" is with such a nickname?
     
  11. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Verse 3. ‘And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns and seven diadems on his heads.’

    There is no difficulty in identifying this second sign. We are told in verse 9 that the dragon is Satan. We must remind ourselves that this is a sign; the devil doesn’t necessarily look like this, but his great size indicates his might and his redness his anger and malevolence. Seven is the number of perfection and ten the number of fullness. His heads, horns and crowns symbolize his great might and his complete conquest of the world as it lies outside of Christ. That is why he is called ‘the prince of this world’ (John 14:30; cf. Luke 4:6). The whole picture is one of great power and we are reminded of 1 John 5:19; ‘We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.’ Satan rules the kingdoms of this world. There are two interesting contrasts between the woman and the dragon. Firstly, the adjective ‘great’ describes the woman’s sign, but not the woman herself, whereas it is the dragon who is called ‘great’ and not his sign. God’s people may appear weak and insignificant in this world and Satan appear extremely powerful, but in God’s eyes, His people have far more significance than does the devil. Secondly, the crowns on the dragon’s heads are diademoi or crowns of royalty- “The symbols of arrogated dominion” (Lenski), whereas the crown or garland on the woman’s head is a crown of victory. We are ‘more than conquerors through Him who loved us’ (Rom. 8:37) and so it shall be proved at the Last Day.

    Verse 4. ‘His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born.’

    It might just about be possible to interpret the first half of this verse literally in the light of 8:12. However, the one third of the stars which are swept out of heaven are surely the fallen angels who joined in Satan’s rebellion. Jude speaks of ‘the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their first abode.’ The dragon stands in front of the woman, to destroy her Child, and we should think of the enmity between Satan and the woman’s Seed foretold back in Gen. 3:15. Satan is filled with hatred against our Lord and all down the ages has sought to bring about the end of the Messianic Line. For example:

    Gen 6:2. ‘….The sons of God saw the children of men, that they were beautiful.’ Satan incited the seed of Seth to mingle with that of Cain, with the result that, ‘The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth’ (v.5). So God sends the Flood- will the messianic seed be destroyed? No! God saves Noah and his sons.

    Gen 16. Abraham has no son and Satan incites him to doubt God’s promise and seek a child after the flesh by Hagar. But when there seems no hope, Isaac, the child of promise, is born (cf. Gal. 4:29).

    1 Sam. 19:10. David plays the harp before Saul, who flings a spear at him to kill him, but David escapes.

    2 Kings 11. The wicked queen Athaliah slays all the royal children. Will the messianic line be lost? No! Jehosheba saves the baby Joash and the Line is safe.

    2 Kings 25:7. Nebuchadnezzar takes Jerusalem and the children of King Zedekiah are put to death along with ‘All the princes of Judah’ (Jer. 52:10). Is the line of David finished? No! Isaiah 11:1 says, ‘There shall come forth a Rod from the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots.’ The Line might seem to be finished, but it was still continuing in secret until that day more than 500 years later when three foreigners came to the court of King Herod and asked, “Where is He that has been born King of the Jews?” (Matt. 2:2). Then Satan stirred up Herod to slay all the little children in Bethlehem, but, ‘Behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream, saying, “Arise and take the young child and His mother, flee to Egypt, and stay there until I bring you word”’ (Matt 2:13). As we read these accounts, it seems almost like a cosmic chess match, with Satan constantly attacking, but God successfully counter-moving every time and steadily moving towards victory.
     
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  12. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Verse 5. ‘She bore a child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne.’ Did the dragon think he had finally won when he saw Christ upon the cross? What a shock the Resurrection must have been to him. And now Christ is reigning in heaven (Psalm 110:1) far above all of Satan’s malice- for Satan, as we shall see was cast down at the same time.

    But the woman (v6) flees into the wilderness. This is how it is for God’s people; they must pass through the desert before they reach the Promised Land. Heb. 13:14 tells us, ‘Here we have no continuing city, but we seek the one to come.’ Like Isaac, we are the heirs of the promises, but the present world is not our home. Let the worldlings make the most of it; for them, this is as good as it gets. Like Abraham, we are waiting ‘For the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God’ (Heb. 11:10). The woman must stay in the wilderness 1,260 days, which is three and a half years (v.14) or 42 months (11:2) -figuratively all the current age and all the time in which the Gospel is being preached. Christians should not imagine that this world can be improved to any marked extent. Paul writes that, ‘In the last days perilous times will come’ and that ‘Evil men and imposters will grow worse and worse’ (2 Tim. 3:1, 13). We are living in a moral wilderness and whilst we should certainly seek to be salt and light to our generation, we are not going to change things morally or culturally; our job is to hold onto the truth and to preach the Gospel, which is the means God uses to bring men out of darkness and into His glorious light.
     
  13. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
    2 and she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered."
    ( Revelation 12:1-2 ).

    The woman is the church ( God's people, the "Israel of God" ), having a crown of 12 stars to signify the 12 apostles.
    "Being with child" symbolizes Christ's birth from the lineage of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and all the way to David, all of them being God's elect and part of the church, or Christ's body, spiritually.



    " And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
    4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born
    ." ( Revelation 12:3-4 ).

    Satan, with seven kings, 10 nations and seven crowns of those kings upon his head, drew a third of the angels from Heaven and because of that, God cast them out to the earth.
    Satan stood before Mary, who was of the people of God and a direct descendant of David, and in the person of Herod tried to kill the Lord Jesus at His birth.



    " And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and [to] his throne.
    6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days."
    ( Revelation 12:5-6 ).

    The man child is the Lord Jesus Christ, who will rule all nations with a rod of iron ( absolute and unwavering authority ) from Jerusalem for 1,000 years.
    He was caught up and sat at the right hand of God in Acts of the Apostles 1:9-11, Luke 22:69, Luke 24:51, Mark 16:19, making intercession for His people.

    During the Tribulation, the woman ( the church, those that are alive and remain to the coming of the Lord ) will have a place prepared for them by God, and be fed by Him 1,260 days ( 42 months ) which is the length of days from the beginning of it, until the end of it...a time, times and half a time ( Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7 = 3.5 years ).
     
    #13 Dave G, Dec 3, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2021
  14. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Kirkuk, Iraq.
    Jerusalem of the Kurds: Kirkuk and the Kurdish Strategy for Independence
     
  15. Two Wings

    Two Wings Well-Known Member
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  16. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Sarajevo?:)
     
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  17. Two Wings

    Two Wings Well-Known Member
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  18. Two Wings

    Two Wings Well-Known Member
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    Review the satellite photo just north of Egbe. It is a bit dated, but the work there is clear.

    8.248045, 5.504196
     
    #18 Two Wings, Dec 4, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2021
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  19. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Directly north?
    Other than Asagun Farms Roads, I see nothing long enough or wide enough ( cleared out ) that a 737 MAX could land on.

    I'm thinking you're referring to that.
     
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  20. Two Wings

    Two Wings Well-Known Member
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    Like i say, it’s in progress ... and this photo is almost 6 months old (google anyway) ... you can see the turnaround “buttons” being cleared.

    yes, a MAX can make it. LEAP engines in reverse is awesome. I’ve flight tested. Two Wings of a great eagle. Will be able to make that run from Bosrah/Petra to Egbe, then one of several places to refuel (not Egbe).
     
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