What Constitutes a Work?

HP: Yet another focused and excellent post. :thumbs: It can be rightfully said that in the sense of merit for salvation all our works are as filthy rags, yet in another sense all our works are indeed not viewed by God as filthy raqs, but can be and often are rewarded by God.

We have to understand and place the right connotation of such verses, not trying to make them admit some general statement under all conditions or in every sense, but rather to understand them in the sense the verse implies.

 

HP: You are treading on new ground for another thread here. Before one decides that one must first understand what constitutes sin. It is not that God’s law was different then from now, but their understanding of it may indeed have not been the same, therefore I believe…………………….. I will save my response for that appropriate future thread.

 

HP: yet another idea that comes to mind from your post is that rewards for ‘good deeds’ may be thought of in different senses. Some will have eternal rewards and some may be rewarded by God in this life only, and some may receive rewards in this life or the life to come! I like the last one especially being still in this flesh.

So, I may say in one sense that one might be rewarded, (thinking of temporal rewards) yet in another sense say they will not be rewarded, (thinking in an eternal sense.) Are we starting to get a new understanding of the way senses are used in language and Scripture, and how it can affect so many different ideas or passages?

Can we see how important it is not just to reach out there and try and get some proof text that will get ones mental philosophy or presupposition in approaching Scripture traction, when in fact the verse may in no way actually support the notion we are trying to promote?

 

HP: BBob, you are coercing me to hijack my own thread. :laugh:
God said that in times past He winked at their ignorance, but now calls upon men everywhere to repent.

 

Here we go again further moving away from the intent of this thread.:tonofbricks:

 

HP; Lets just put it this way. It had to be a selfish intent against a known commandment of God, whether or not just to dwell on an idea or lustful thought or to actually commit an outward act. Sin again does not have to be associated or linked directly with an outward act to be sin. Sin and or righteousness are both born with the intent whether or not any act is ever committed.


What is that Scripture about God judging us not according to what we don’t have but according to what we do? It is if as though when I desire to do good, even though it may not be within the realm of my abilities to do so, God still sees it as righteousness or good and will reward me according to my desire regardless if I ever have the means at my disposal to actually act upon that desire or formed intent. 2Co 8:12 For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.

 

HP: There are indeed some strange things in Scripture. Another would be that lying prophet I am waiting for a response concerning on another thread. Could it be that God wants us to recognize our limitations and keep us all humble in our assertions concerning our knowledge of theology?

 

HP: I certainly do.

I cannot help but feel in my spirit that the exchange between all involved in this thread has been one of the most far reaching an enlightening threads I have witnessed. If we will but continue to meditate and dwell on these points before God in prayer, I cannot help but believe that God will open our eyes to a yet greater understanding of truth.

Our remaining duty will simply be to assure our formed intents and subsequent actions are in keeping with the light received and to use any developed light when speaking to others within the parameters and guidelines of Christian charity.

 

HP: I agree that God grants to all men a measure of faith. The question is what does a measure of faith constitute?

I believe that first, it assure us that faith is universally granted to all men to some degree in some senses. Just the same, that does not mean that God determines who will act upon and in accordance to that universal ability. Works come into play as this universal ability of faith is applied to the heart in the form of an influence to exercise the will in accordance to this measure of faith. As we voluntarily exercise our wills in accordance to this influence of faith, God judges that formation of an intent in such a way as to make the object of that faith, the sacrifice of Christ on the cross, to be applied to our sin debt, to the end that God can governmentally treat us as if though we have never sinned.

God indeed does initiate the measure of faith in all men, just as God grants to men universal first truths of reason to guide them in their pursuit of truth. Just the same, that in no way detracts from the fact that man must of his own volition form intents in agreement to the faith implanted in man. The universal measure of faith saves no one, but rather makes it possible man being able to yield and place his faith in God IF he wills in accordance to the universal measure of faith granted to all as an influence making our faith possible.

 

HP: By his own volition I am trying to indicate that the individual is actively involved apart from force or coercion in the formation of intents, both in the choice to accept God’s conditions for salvation and His conditions subsequent to salvation in remaining in the faith. Remove mans will from the picture in its entirety before of after and you are left with deterministic fatalism. I cannot accept that as the truth and I do not believe Scripture or reason indicates that such is the case.

Bear in mind, as we have tried to go carefully over, our formed intents ARE NOT meritorious in any way shape of form in regard to gaining or keeping salvation. They are thought of in the sense of ‘not without which,’ not ‘that for the sake of.’ Is that clear or is my explanation in need of adjustments?

 

As we have gone over in at least a measure of detail, an important key to understanding the importance of our involvement is to understand that we are and must be considered as first causes of our intents, both in initial belief and faith as well as in works of righteousness subsequent to the born again experience. If the element of being a first cause is abridged or lost, determinism lies at the door and responsibility for ones intents is destroyed. When responsibility is destroyed, morality and all moral desserts of punishment or rewards is lost. To punish or reward one in a moral sense that is not a first cause of their intents and subsequent action is to throw justice, reason and the testimony of Scripture to the wind.

Scripture is clear. Man is both responsible to God antecedent to salvation and subsequent to salvation. Moral sanctions apply to all moral agents regardless of pre or post the salvation experience. Man, as a believer is fully responsible to God for forming intents, free from coercion or force, in accordance to benevolence, and as such is the first cause of pre and post salvation intents, intents formed of and by ones own volition although influenced clearly by the Holy Spirit both before and after.

God’s influences, in areas where moral blame or praise is involved and directly predicated of ones intents, is always a passive influence upon the will of man. Man is no robot. He was and remains, if in fact he remains as a moral agent, the first cause of his intents, and as such properly responsible to God for them, and as such a proper recepient of God's punishments or rewards .