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What Damage Does Arminianism Cause?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by KenH, Feb 25, 2003.

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  1. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Here is another WHAT IF question that we should consider:

    What if Arminians are wrong and Calvinists are right? What damage has been done?

    The only basis for salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in the finished work of Christ alone.

    What damage does Arminianism do to the above basis for salvation? Arminianism teaches that in order for a person to be saved he must add to the finished work of Christ. Arminianism teaches that the finished work of Christ is not sufficient to save anyone. Arminianism teaches that man must do something(regardless of the Arminian semantics of saying that repentance and faith are not works) - not by the power of God alone as Calvinism teaches - but by his own power(or free choice within the confines of his sinful nature).

    I submit that Arminianism teaches man to trust in himself and his actions in addition to, and even in place of, the finished work of Christ.

    Take this test by finishing this sentence - I am saved because...

    The way you answer that question will say indicate a lot about whether you have already passed from death to life, or not. If you use the word "I" immediately after the word "because" I urge you to examine whether you are truly saved or not.

    Yes, it matters whether we believe the truth or not. And Arminianism is not true on any of its five points.

    Blessings. [​IMG]
     
    #1 KenH, Feb 25, 2003
  2. William C

    William C New Member

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    A lot less than if it is the other way around, I know that for sure! Especially when it comes to the most important thing, the eternal salvation of souls. Which we might want to ask how much damage Universalism could do. Wow! It could be disasterous for teenagers especially as they decide whether they should "risk" their "luck."

    Nope, no damage done. We can answer just as the apostles did when they were asked, "How can we be saved." We will reply like them and say, "Repent and believe!" If you consider that "something" then take it up with the apostles, that was their answer and I'm sticking to it!

    Nope, I trust Christ and I teach others to trust Christ as well. "Repent and Believe"

    I am saved because Christ died on the cross for my sins, appointed the gospel to be preached throughout the world, calls us by his Holy Spirit, and gave me the opportunity to respond to his free offer of grace through faith in Him. Praise God. He gets all the glory!

    Why did I say yes? Because of Jesus. He get all the glory even though it was my decision.

    What if you say, everyone is eventually saved, should you doubt your salvation then, Ken?

    Yes it does matter if we believe the truth. And what do the five points matter to you anyway, we are all going to heaven if your right.
     
    #2 William C, Feb 25, 2003
  3. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    1)So you admit that Arminianism causes damage if it is not true. That is progress. [​IMG]

    2)Anyone who does not trust in the finished work of Christ alone is not saved. Trusting in one's repentance, or faith, or baptism, etc. indicates that one is not saved - and that is a real danger in Arminianism whether you see it or not.

    3)But item number 4 that follows indicates that you believe otherwise because...

    4)You are basing your salvation on your decision and not on the finished work of Christ alone. I urge you to reconsider, not because I doubt your salvation, but your basis for understanding why a person is saved is flawed.

    5)Anyone who does not trust in the finished work of Christ alone, but is looking to his repentance, faith, decision, etc., will end up in hell.

    What one believes matters and Arminianism is a false gospel because it teaches salvation by free will(which doesn't exist anyway) instead of by God's free grace.
     
    #3 KenH, Feb 25, 2003
  4. William C

    William C New Member

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    You obviously didn't read my posts, I have always admitted that any false doctrine does damage. I'm speaking about ETERNAL damage.

    Danger of what? Lessoning the number of the elect? That is not possible according to Calvinists.

    Are you saying that I'm not saved because I believe that I'm saved through my faith in Christ?

    What about people who hear the gospel but never hear the dogma of Calvinists? What if they die following Christ thinking all along it was their choice to follow him, because they were never indoctrinated by Calvinism.

    But this belief won't affect anyone's "election" according to Calvinists so no matter what you say, if I'm wrong, there is no ETERNAL harm.

    Even if they believe, as I do, that faith is a gift of God grace? I just believe that it is given to every man who hears the gospel and they must decide whether or not they exercise it. All good things come from God, we all beleive that.
     
    #4 William C, Feb 25, 2003
  5. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Brother Bill,

    If you believe that it doesn't matter whether someone believes the truth, if you believe that believing falsehood has no consequences, then I doubt anyone will convince you otherwise.

    Just continue on your misguided crusade against Calvinists since you evidently get your kicks out of it. It's too bad that there is no evidence that you also put the same effort in combating the falsehoods of Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc. Instead, you want to paint Calvinists as some kind of monsters. :(
     
    #5 KenH, Feb 25, 2003
  6. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    Repentance [Matt. 3:2 & 8] and faith [Romans 4:5] is that which takes place within the agent who we call a sinner. [Romans 3:23] These two experiences do not take place because of some outside force or inner, arrangement, schemed by the Divine One.


    After conviction has made its inroad in the life of the sinner [Romans 3:23] and he is convinced of his sinful past, [John 16:8] he then is constrained to repent {turning from his sins} to believe in Jesus. [Acts 16:31]

    Jesus Himself pictures this in Luke 15:7. 'I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in Heaven over one sinner who repents, more than the ninety and nine just persons, who need no repentance.'

    Almighty God does not Divinely compose repentance of His own free will and accord in the life of a sinner. If He did a person would not be rendering human submission coming from his rebellious heart and life; it would be merely the exertion and idea of God alone. This new love and devotion would be fraudulent because man would have been humanly manipulated and used. Never in this new Christian could he offer worship because it would not have been from his authentic life changing experience.
     
    #6 Ray Berrian, Feb 25, 2003
  7. William C

    William C New Member

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    Once again Ken, you are misquoting me. I've never said that falsehood has not consequences. I've only said that if Arminians are wrong their are no eternal consequences, if Calvinist's are wrong there are, you don't like that fact so you feel have to misquote me in order to prove a point. It's not working.

    How do you know anything about my combating of other false religions. I could assume you don't combat false religions too because you only believe the elect will be saved anyway, so why bother. Or, for you, a universalist, I might say, everyone will get to heaven anyway, so why bother.

    Don't make assumptions about me and I won't make them about you. Ok.
     
    #7 William C, Feb 25, 2003
  8. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    There are consequences after this age for false doctrines that teach that one must add to the finished work of Christ to be saved. You seem to be trying to say you can believe a false doctrine such as that and get away with it. I do not believe you can.
     
    #8 KenH, Feb 25, 2003
  9. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    When God gives a sinner a new heart and a resurrected soul, he quite willingly gives worship to God as he repents and believes. But that is God's action on the sinner that brings about the change, not the action of the sinner.
     
    #9 KenH, Feb 25, 2003
  10. Yelsew

    Yelsew Guest

    I am saved because...I believe in Jesus who justified me, and atoned for my sins thus making me appear before the judgment throne of God sanctified.
     
    #10 Yelsew, Feb 25, 2003
  11. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Yelsew,

    I am not surprised that you would place the big "I" after the word "because". I feel for you for I spent many a year in the same sad boat you are in. :(
     
    #11 KenH, Feb 25, 2003
  12. William C

    William C New Member

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    There are consequences after this age for false doctrines that teach that one must add to the finished work of Christ to be saved. You seem to be trying to say you can believe a false doctrine such as that and get away with it. I do not believe you can. </font>[/QUOTE]Can you show me in the Bible where it says that my doctrine will have negative eternal consequences.
     
    #12 William C, Feb 25, 2003
  13. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Due to some remodeling, I don't have all of my materials handy, but look at Romans 1:25 for one verse. And 1 Timothy 4:1.

    Any variance from the truth about salvation has harmful consequences in the age to come. A person cannot believe just any ole doctrine and prance into heaven.
     
    #13 KenH, Feb 25, 2003
  14. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    Ken H,

    I really believe in the finished work that Christ accomplished on the Cross for everyone. This is a Divine verity. But a sinner can think about the Cross 24/7 or think maybe he is 'Unconditionally Elected' to Heaven and he will still go to Hell. A sinner must personally believe in the Lord Jesus and this is also a Biblical fact. [Acts 16:31] The substitutionary death of Jesus for sinners is vital to our doctrine, but a sinner must believe and trust in His promises or all is lost.
     
    #14 Ray Berrian, Feb 26, 2003
  15. Doubting Thomas

    Doubting Thomas Active Member

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    Actually, Ken, you've got the cart before the horse.

    "Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin. Cast away from you all the transgressions you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel?" (Ezek 18:30-31)

    According to Scripture, those who REPENT are the ones who "GET THE NEW HEART AND NEW SPIRIT", and not the other way around.
     
    #15 Doubting Thomas, Feb 26, 2003
  16. stubbornkelly

    stubbornkelly New Member

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    I am saved because...

    . . . God offered, and I accepted.


    The acceptance bit seems rather essential.
     
    #16 stubbornkelly, Feb 26, 2003
  17. romanbear

    romanbear New Member

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    Hi Ken H;
    A quote from you;
    -------------------------------------------------
    The only basis for salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in the finished work of Christ alone.
    -------------------------------------------------
    I'm sorry you're wrong, wrong, wrong. The Bible always has Faith as coming before grace if I'm wrong show me.Grace is not bestowed on any one until after they have faith.This just another of Calvin's misinterpretation of scripture....
    Romanbear
     
    #17 romanbear, Feb 26, 2003
  18. romanbear

    romanbear New Member

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    Hi stubornkelly; [​IMG]
    You've got the tickett to peace everlasting and blessing unimaginable.Praise God
    Romanbear [​IMG]
     
    #18 romanbear, Feb 26, 2003
  19. Doubting Thomas

    Doubting Thomas Active Member

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    Technically, it's Grace THROUGH Faith (see Eph 2:8) [​IMG] . The Grace is given not BEFORE nor AFTER the faith, but THROUGH it. But I get your point--faith must be exercised in order to receive grace since faith is the God-ordained channel by which grace is received.
     
    #19 Doubting Thomas, Feb 26, 2003
  20. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    No, I have not. Please see Ezekiel 36:26-27 and notice that the action is taken by God, not man. [​IMG]
     
    #20 KenH, Feb 26, 2003
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