What do you normally do when a Jehovah Witness knocks on your door?

Well, I guess we'll have to disagree. Imo, they are Demon possessed.

So casting demons out of them is not out of the question. Not sure how that would be carried out though....

I had a good friend in high school who was JW. We remained friends until about age 18 or 19. After we graduated, we both got married very soon and lived next door to one another.
Once at the Kingdom Hall, I saw my former bus driver from grade school. Mentioned this to my friend and his mother, and they both told me not to speak to him because he had been disfellowshiped. Never heard of that, so I asked what he did to deserve it. I was told he smoked a cigarette. He was a smoker years prior, and fell back into it. Of course, I was shocked.

I expressed my dismay and went over to speak to him in church. He had been sitting with his family, (including their young children) who had gotten up to socialize. He sat alone. He cut off our conversation quickly, because he said he was trying to get back into the good graces of the JW's. His family, including his kids, were not speaking to him. He felt he sinned, and deserved what he got. Of course, I told him differently but understood his reasoning. He missed his family terribly.

You see, his children, his wife and everyone in the congregation refused to speak to him or even awknowledge his presence in the church. When you are disfellowshipped, you sit with your family through many church services while others pass you by, ignore you, saying hello to everyone else. You are not to speak because you are being watched. You are shunned by friends and family for many months. At some point, the Elders decide who is re-instated back into the organization. It's a slow process.

Until this point, they hadn't mentioned it because JW's are told to "ease" you into the truth. Avoid answering any hard questions until the victims are readily indoctrinated.

My friends mother drove us to church that day so the whole way home I was very upset at all of them in the car. Could barely hold my tongue to not swear at them all. The feeling in the car felt satanic, never felt that feeling before.

He and his mother "justified" every concern I had while we rode the Mini van with his older brother and sister. All the while, they appeared like people out of "invasion of the body snatchers" It was like I could see horns growing out of their heads, no kidding. Felt this with all except the 22 year old older sister. She never spoke, and I felt kindof a kinship with her. A few weeks later, she left the church.

She stopped by our home a few weeks after this incident saying her husband told everyone she committed adultery. They were divorcing. (Btw, that is the only valid reason a JW can divorce another JW-or there may be one other reason at the most-death).

I had been alone with her, certainly not the flirty kind. When she dropped by unexpectidly, I always let her in the house and we would visit for a long while, even when my wife was gone. This is the sad part. She attempted to get custody or partial custody of her kids but couldn't. We continued to babysit for them, actually it was for the JW father sine they were separated, throughout their divorce.
I know the kids were told to lie, as the 5 year old told me what she was instructed to say. Imo, this is likely why she lost her kids. She was a wonderful mother who loved her kids, they were everything to her. Knowing what her parents, siblings and ex husband were saying about her tore her apart. The kids felt if they loved their mother, they were sinning because she was of "The lost" and suddenly not a good person. Not a good influence. Because we bonded to their children, we decided we wanted a baby so my wife got pregnant very soon.

We all grew up in the same small town together. I stated I would never be a JW in high school but would agree to study with my JW friend so his parents would allow us to remain friends. Obviously, I still attended church with them once in a while right after we graduated (as a favor) though we both were adults, had gotten married, and lived next door to one another.

I did a google search, and found this link. Apparently, instructing your kids upon what to say against the non-JW parent during child custody hearings is a common thing.

http://www.freeminds.org/psych/growinup.htm

So yes, they are Demon possessed imo. They are like pod people. A bunch of sick child abusers....Despite this, I still enjoy seeing my former JW friend around town though I lost respect for him that day.

They, like everyone else, need the gospel. When you convert a JW, you are also saving their children from abuse.

In the book, Aid to Bible Understanding Jehovah’s Witnesses are told that “a person is not under obligation to divulge truthful information to people are not entitled to it”

“Lying generally involves saying something false to
a person who is entitled to know the truth and doing
so with the intent to deceive or to injure him or
another person... While malicious lying is definitely
condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a
person is under obligation to divulge truthful
information to people who are not entitled to it.”
Aid to Bible Understanding, 1971 ed., p. 1060-
1061

It becomes clear that the Society not only condones but even counsels it’s members to lie, even in a court of law. How then can one trust the testimony of a Jehovah’s Witness in a court of law?

 

Your question - and mine - was about Acts 10:43 - in what way is that 'clear'? (Others have already stated how the Johannine passage to which you also refer is less than 'clear'.

Please now answer my question.

 

Witness

We witness to them.

Last year, we were raking our yard outside when two women approached us. My husband let them talk a bit, then he asked if he could have a few moments also.

He pulled out of his wallet a wordless book, and proceeded to present the gospel in it's entirety, from sin to salvation and Heaven. They tried to interrupt him a few times, but he quieted them by reminding them that he had listened to THEIR presentation, and it would only be polite for them to extend him that courtesy! :jesus:

They regularly come by, and we regularly present the gospel to them.

If they come by and I am alone in the house, I will not speak to them alone. I remind them that my husband is my spiritual headcovering and that they should not be approaching me without my husband present.

 

I pull out my Greek New Testament and we talk about John's intent in John 1:1

"And God was the Word."

 

Perhaps your question is less clear to me than the Scripture quoted
Acts 10:43 presents no question to me. It is a simple verse with a clear understanding and presentation of the gospel.
It was also an example, an illustration of how easy the Bible is to understand, not the topic of this thread.

Likewise
1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

If your understanding of these Scriptures is lacking I sense that there is something wrong, or else you are playing the devil's advocate and are being contentious for contentious sake.

 

Au contraire, both are excellent examples of the Bible being open to interpretation, and it is the interpretation which is key epistemologically. I ask again: in what way is Acts 10:43 'clear'? How do you deal with the interpretative problems with the verse which I highlighted?

 

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Your objections from a previous post:

1. Any interpretation by the J.W. is irrelevant since the believer is the one expounding the truth in this case. The false teacher has no case.

2. The Biblical meaning of "believe" is never mental assent, (in context of salvation) as one believes that President Bush is the President of America. But rather: "If thou shalt believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead..." It is an action word.

3. Yes it is called faith. Faith is confidence in the word of another. In this case it is confidence in the Word of God. It is a word related to trust and belief.

4. "Him" Christ, is the object of our faith.

Almost any believer can figure that out for himself. The verse is not in question. I would say that if there is controversy over the meaning of that verse then you (the one with the controversy) is not a Christian.

 

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Nothing hard to understand about it at all. The prophets of old testified to the truth that any person who placed their trust in Jesus Christ would be forgiven for sin.

The problem, I believe, is language barrier. What meant one thing years ago means an entirely different thing now.

For instance:
Gay then - happy, carefree
Gay now - homosexual

unicorn - wild ox
unicorn - mythological creature


Many more words have changed through the centuries.

Believe in Acts 10:43 meant more than just believing as we see the word used today. Believe meant trust.

One can believe a bridge is constructed well enough to carry one's vehicle across to the other side, but until that belief becomes trust, until that one drives out onto the bridge, the belief is really not resulting in anything at all.

The prophets testified that trust in Christ brought about the result of Salvation for the believer.

 

The point is not that Christian Jews and Christian Gentiles differ --

the point is that Christians (whether Jew or gentile) were a "sect of the Jews" and this is why Paul was so emphatic in saying "I AM a Pharisee" in Acts 21.

This is why Paul claims that the Jews view the Christians "as a sect" of Judaism. The SAME Bible, the SAME God and speaking about the SAME Messiah. And as we see in Acts 13 - they all worshipped together. In fact this is the point that James makes to "settle the dispute" when he points out that the scriptures as written by MOSES ARE being heard in the synagogues by their own people "every Sabbath" such that only a few items need to be emphasized with Gentile Christians and NO burden added to them for circumcision in the NT since it also was not added to them even in the OT according to "scripture".

Hint - Judaizers were the Acts 15 "Christian Jews" not the "non-Chritian Jews" that Paul is reaching in Acts 13 and Acts 17.

It was WITHIN their OWN group that they had this problem as Paul points out in Acts 20 "From among your OWN selves".

Hence my reluctance to entertain someone who promotes any doctrinal error from WITHIN my OWN denomination and my suggestion that each denomination take that same approach.

Again - he is not talking about pagans or about non-Christian Jews - but rather about those WITHIN the Christian community that were teaching error. (As of that point they had no "denomination" within Christianity - they only had the "denomination" element BETWEEN Christians and non-Christian-Jews. Paul says in his own defence that regarding this group "they call a sect I AM one of them". And that role took him to the SYNAGOGUE taking an OT vow and paying the fees for other Jews taking the vow with him in Acts 21... indeed a "denominational rift".)

In fact When Paul realizes that OTHER factions are there as well (Sadducees) he cries out "I AM a pharisee the SON of a Pharisee and I am being put on trial for OUR beliefs in the resurrection" at which point the Pharisess JOIN in DEFENDING Paul -- one of "their own".

Agreed - REACH OUT to nonChristian Jews and Gentiles but AVOID the CHRISTIAN factions that were teaching error.

Yet since WITHIN Christianity at that time there were no organized "denominations" the only "denomination comparison" that they had -- compariable to ours -- is the "sect of Christians" vs their parent church - the Jews.

in Christ,

Bob

 

But that's a circular argument which begs more questions than it answers; it is based on the presumption that you are right and they are wrong in their interpretation.

And on what basis and with what authority do you and SFIC come up with your above definitions?

 

By the authority of God's Word.

 

yes

We always end up discussing this verse with them, also!

 

As interpreted by whom? You're still being circular...

 

We have been there.

My husband and I were in a group, aka cult, which had beliefs similar to JWs. I guess since were were there, deceived once, we try to reason the Scriptures with them. We were saved out of deception, perhaps some of them will be as well.

Once, three of them came by....one young woman, I presume she was in training, came with two older people. She had been by the house previously, with other older people.

This time we happened to have other believers spending the week with us. We sat these JWs down, and my husband and another believing man went through the Scriptures with them. They ended up leaving fairly quickly...the young woman was getting visibly upset in the situation. She was shaking, and seemed close to tears. We pray that perhaps she was starting to see error in what she was being indoctrinated into.

Another time, my husband asked two ladies, who were JWs, what the "center" of their faith was....they went into the kingdom, the 144,000, etc. My hubby listened to them out, then said to them, "Why is it that you have never mentioned Jesus Christ?" They sputtered, backtracked, and claimed that, of course, they had mentioned Him (of course, they didn't). My husband quietly explained to them that we, also, had been like them...our faith was not centered on Jesus Christ, but was off the path, so to speak....

We have a friend who is saved out of the Witnesses, and the walls of deception came tumbling down for her when she came to understand the diety of Christ. Our scales also had fallen off when we acknowledged the diety of Christ.

 

So then - if while in the former group of yours -- you ever went door-to-door would you have liked Bible believing Christians who DID understand the "Bible proof" for the diety of Christ to slam the door on you -- or envite you in?

Would you have preferred that they simply invite you in and "sit you down for a sterm talking to" or envite you in for Bible study as Christ said in John 16 "I have many more things to tell you but you can not bear them now" giving you just those sections of truth that you were ready to take as "the next steps" in your journey?

Notice that Paul says in Col 4 "pray for us -- for a DOOR for the word" and says that if we "pray without ceasing" then -- only then - our "words may be seasned as with salt" perfectly seasoned for the right person at the right time that we might "know HOW to respond to each person".

This is the "amazintg concept" that witnessing is not in the form of a fire-hose that we use to overwhelm others -- but witnessing is "God's Job" and he need to go to Him for our daily assignment - doing for that individual person that we meet that day -- the specific thing God tells us for that day -- and that could mean "I have many more things to tell you but you can not bear them now".

Now that you see it from both sides -- what say you?

in Christ,

Bob

 

My daughter is in high school. One of the subjects she is presently taking is Biology. I am a former Biology teacher. She asks the questions; I give the answers. I have the authority; not her. I have the authority because I have had years of study and education in that particular field. She has not. A J.W. has no education in true Biblical education, but rather in the education of Charles Taze Russel and the Watchtower publications. He becomes my student. I become the teacher, his authority. The Bible is my authority. In Biology I have other reference material if I need them. In theology I have other reference material, if I need them.

The Bible interprets itself, and does not contradict itself. This is the beauty of sola scriptura which we all know you reject. The J.W.'s also reject it, for their authority is Charles Taze Russel.

 

"The Bible interprets itself"?:laugh: Yeah, right; that's why all you Biblicists agree on everything, right? Thanks for giving me the laugh of the week!

 

No, we didn't go door to door

No, we didn't go door to door....what happened in our cult was truly amazing!

The leadership changed....the founder, Mr. Armstrong died, and a new "apostle" took over...Mr. Tkach.

Someone wrote to WCG and asked why we didn't believe in the Trinity....Mr. Tkach started his elders researching it, and, as these elders started to research, they discovered Scriptural proof that Christ WAS a person of the Godhead! More studies followed, with the cult actually coming into the New Covenant!

Back to your question, Bob....I would have hoped that someone would not have slammed the door in my face, but would have pointed out Scriptures to refute what I was believing at the time.

Perhaps I would have resisted at first, but I would hope that I would eventually would have studied the contradictions for myself....we had to do this anyway, individually, when Mr. Tkach informed the whole organization of WCG that we were WRONG, that Mr. Armstrong was completely in error!!! Unfortunately, fifty percent of the membership continued to fracture into splinter groups, remaining under the Old TEstament law....the rest of us went on to salvation in Christ alone, through faith!

 

You know Matt, it was April Fools yesterday.

InXC
-

 

If you believe that then can you explain 1 Cor 15:29 using scripture alone?

1 Cor 15:29, "Otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them?"