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Featured What Does "All" Mean?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by ktn4eg, Jun 2, 2013.

  1. HisWitness

    HisWitness New Member

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    Friend why don't you read what I posted again and don't put words into it ?

    I never said that sin was created in us--I SAID THAT THE ABILITY TO DO EVIL WAS PUT IN US----BIG DIFFERENCE

    God did KNOW that man would use that ability to do evil also.
     
  2. DrJamesAch

    DrJamesAch New Member

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    All is a representative of the Jews left standing after the tribulation. All still means all. It is not 'all' that needs to be interpreted, it is the effect that it has on interpreting the entire context as a whole. Paul is talking about the "finished product" not Israel throughout history. So yes, all means all because at the end of the tribulation there will not be any unbelieving Jews left. Rev 2:22-23, Rev 12:14-17.


    Virtually ALL of the mss, those underlying the KJV AND the MV's contain the Greek "anthropos" which is translated either "man" or "people". No translator "supplied" this noun in the sentence.

    Heres the reading that underlies all of the MV's (Westcott and Hort, Nestle/Aland, Alexandrian Text)

    "τοὺς μὲν οὖν χρόνους τῆς ἀγνοίας ὑπεριδὼν ὁ θεὸς τὰ νῦν παραγγέλλει τοῖς ἀνθρώποις πάντας πανταχοῦ μετανοεῖν"

    Heres the TR reading:

    " τοὺς μὲν οὖν χρόνους τῆς ἀγνοίας ὑπεριδὼν ὁ θεὸς τὰ νῦν παραγγέλλει τοῖς ἀνθρώποις πάσιν πανταχοῦ μετανοεῖν"

    Both sides have ἀνθρώποις (anthropois) in them.

    Thus Acts 17:30 is a command for ALL MEN EVERYWHERE to repent.
     
  3. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    God is good what comes from God is good. He gave free agency not the ability to do evil. We did the evil it came from us we are responsible for our own action. He gave us a free agency so we will love Him on our own not for us to have the ability to do evil. The evil part was found meaning it did not come from God.
     
  4. HisWitness

    HisWitness New Member

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    Friend you still don't see--we did do it ourselves---but God gave us the ability to do good and evil--he created us--if you say we do not have the ability to do evil--then man would have never done evil to begin with--we are his created beings--he made us with the ability to do(to obey and to reject)this is part of man--if you say God did not make man like that then you have a man who will always do good at all times because that's the only ABILITY he has to use ?????
     
  5. Herald

    Herald New Member

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    God gave Adam the ability to choose to sin (posse peccare) and to choose not to sin (posse non peccare). Once Adam sinned his nature changed; he no longer could choose not to sin without God's intervention. I do believe that intervention came when God killed animals to make garments of skin for Adam and Eve (Genesis 3:21). This was a sign of Jesus' atoning work on the cross. Unfortunately Adam's posterity has been born not able not to sin (non posse non peccare). Sinful man is not a moral free agent because he is born spiritually dead (Ephesians 2:1) and is not able to choose good (1 Corinthians 2:14) without God's intervention (Ephesians 2:4, 5).
     
  6. Gorship

    Gorship Active Member

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    I remember listening to a lecture by Norman Geisler, he said (probably paraphrasing a little bit) "all means all, all the time and that's all." :)
     
  7. HisWitness

    HisWitness New Member

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    I do disagree that adam nature changed after the fall--he had the same nature as he did before fall--he had only 1 thing not to do before the fall--and his eyes were not opened to good and evil at the time being.

    So he only had 1 thing that was tempting him and that was what God said not to do--he was curious of what it was and what it would do to them.

    So therefore he did just like he continued to do after the fall--only he was cursed after the fall and not before--he still had the abilities to choose that which was good and that which was evil--notice how God killed the animals and gave the skins for adam to put on--adam could have chosen there to NOT do as God said to do--be he Chose to take the skins and put them on to cover his nakedness--he chose to do good by obeying God.
     
  8. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    God intention for a free agency not a moral free agency was not to give us an ability to sin or choose sin was for good not evil. It was found meaning God did not put it there. It came from our self we are accountable for our action. What is love if not done by a free agency?
     
  9. Herald

    Herald New Member

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    I have a problem with "free agency" language, but I do agree that God is not culpable for man's sin. We sin freely and are culpable for our own sin.
     
  10. Herald

    Herald New Member

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    We do disagree here. Once Adam sinned he assumed a sin nature. Adam's sin resulted in both spiritual and physical death.
     
  11. HisWitness

    HisWitness New Member

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    what you are saying is that God did not make man in that way --but man somehow evolved to that point of his on ?
     
  12. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Who do you suppose Ezekiel 28:15 is referring to? Verse 12 says "Son of man, take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre, and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord', 'You had the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty, (13) 'You were in Eden, the garden of God...... (15) 'You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created, Until unrighteousness was found in you.....'" (Bold for emphasis)

    Now, I don't believe the king of Tyre was in the garden of Eden.....
     
  13. HisWitness

    HisWitness New Member

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    nope he was not in the garden--men want to try and make this out to be a so called fallen angel named Satan--because no where else in scripture can they find that event even taking place in the scriptures.

    Further more the King of Tyre was a MAN--plainly states this in the same chapter at the start of the chapter

    In like manner the king of Babylon was also a man who was King Nebby(short for a long name)

    it is a symbolic statement or Figurative statement describing the judgements on a king and his city and even the cities around him.
     
    #33 HisWitness, Jun 2, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 2, 2013
  14. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    Scripture tells us it was found it did not come from God. Evil came from from us. We are responsible for our actions.

    If it was found how did it come from a ability we was given?

    A free agency
     
  15. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    God is talking about Satan and referring to King Trye as being filled with Satan like Peter get behind me Satan
     
  16. HisWitness

    HisWitness New Member

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    we are not saying evil was put into man--your view is being blocked by something--we say that you have a choice(which is an ability in it self)to do good or evil ??
     
  17. HisWitness

    HisWitness New Member

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    no where does the scriptures teach this--and further more are you saying Satan can fill the Saints and control them ??????

    on the case of peter--and with a lot of jews -they had the believe that when Christ was come that he would set up a earthly kingdom--so therefore when jesus said that he was going to die--that went directly against peter's thinking and peter rebuked him.

    the word Satan defines as Adversary--all that was being shown there was that Peter was being an adversary himself against the way of truth and peter was then rebuked by Christ--Adversary get thee behind me !!!

    do a word study of Satan(its a loanword)it has another greek word behind it

    instead of people looking at this as always a name of a certain so called fallen angel(which that event is no where in scripture)it is rather a WORD that denotes adversary or accuser (this is a long drawn out subject--you do the study and see for your selves)the word Satan is rarely even used in the old testament but for a very few times and used more so in the new testament---I know most of you will reject this totally but why don't you spend the countless hours studying this word and topic that I have(by no means do I know all as I ought)instead of just taking the same ole tradition without even giving it say 2 weeks of your study time to see for yourselves.
     
  18. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    We were created without the knowledge of good and evil.

    We had no desire to do evil until the serpent put the idea in our head. It was not until then the wickedness came.

    That is when the choice happen before then they had no ability to do evil. We never question God before then. The murderer from the beginning the Father of lies. The choice to do evil did not come from God.
     
  19. HisWitness

    HisWitness New Member

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    well I will have to say Adam tried to blame eve--eve tried to blame the Serpent--but of no avail to God.

    Just like you trying to blame some Serpent like they were doing is also of no avail(you really don't even truly know who the Serpent was)

    adam knew that its wrong to do what God said NO!!to do and he CHOSE to do it instead(that's the ability to choose wrong Evil or however you want to say it--it is EVIL to do what God said not to do).
     
  20. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    I am not blaming God saying He gave man the ability so they can sin or saying it is because of Satan. Satan may have given us an evil choice but we did it by our own free agency not because of a choice and we are responsible for our sin not God or Satan. We are going to pay the price if we do not repent to live
     
    #40 psalms109:31, Jun 2, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 2, 2013
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