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Featured What does consistent error look like?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Iconoclast, Jul 6, 2012.

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  1. MorseOp

    MorseOp New Member

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    God answers human prayers (can prayer originate from any other created species?). If an Arminian prays for his brother to be saved, God can still answer that prayer even if it is inconsistent with that Arminian's personal theology. If a Calvinist prays the same thing it does not alleviate the person being prayed for of having to exercise faith. The issue is really one of perfect knowledge. I think I am going to start a thread on that.
     
    #21 MorseOp, Jul 7, 2012
  2. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    I already have....as I haunt sites like his semi-regularly, and this OP is still making a mountain out of a mole-hill. If it were not the case that you were viewing it through the lense of Calvinist Polemic, and were unaware of it, then reading what he says, in context, whether you agree with it or not, is basically benign at worst. You are, and were, looking with a fine-toothed comb as hard as possible, to find something you could construe as objectionable in his writing, and you found it. :applause: Good for you :applause: You could do the same thing with any non-inspired writings of the Apostle Paul himself, and, were he an Arminian, I have no doubt you would try.

    Consider two things:
    1.) Olson is capable of writing a sincere article entitled "What I like about Calvinists"
    2.) You would be incapable of writing a sincere article entitled "What I like about Arminians"

    In this respect: We could all learn something from Olson.

    I think Olson is making "mountains out of mole-hills" with the article in your OP. You are making mountains out of molehills by harping on Olson's use of the word "can't". Again, if you understood what he was saying, you wouldn't take it as a statement of God's power as you do, but a statement about his character and purpose. That is what I meant by viewing it charitably and reasonably. This thread is a pointless witch-hunt, predicated upon a rather insignifigant and somewhat ill-advised (IMO) article by Olson. Brian Abasciano's response article to it is much better.

    For those who would like to read it.....http://evangelicalarminians.org/?q=node/1417
     
    #22 HeirofSalvation, Jul 7, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 7, 2012
  3. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    A Non-Evangelistic Double Predestinarian Hyper Calvinist. ;)
    [​IMG]
     
    #23 Skandelon, Jul 7, 2012
  4. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    That is probably about how Michael Servetus looked while being burned.
     
    #24 saturneptune, Jul 7, 2012
  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    HOS.....we will not agree here:wavey: That website is a fountain of poison, just like in the westerns when the wagon train finds water that kills the cattle.
    As time permits I will seek to contact Roger Olson. I could develop this further...but sometimes it brings me down to read such error...sincerely believed and held by its followers. It leads to many absurdities as Michael Horton pointed out.
     
    #25 Iconoclast, Jul 7, 2012
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    A few questions for clarity here. In your scheme how is the sinner secure?

    You claim God leaves it to the sinner to believe or not.

    What if the sinner does not want to believe tommorow?

    Does the sinner give God.....permission...to keep him saved???

    Does God force the sinner to remain saved against his will?
     
    #26 Iconoclast, Jul 7, 2012
  7. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    "fountain of poison"?? Evangelical Arminians? Wow, Icon, that is a new low. And nothing in Calcvinism, by reduction ad infinitum could be reduced to absurdities?
     
    #27 quantumfaith, Jul 7, 2012
  8. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Did you read any of the articles on that sight??? Horrible:thumbsup: Error is error...who ever posts it.
     
    #28 Iconoclast, Jul 7, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 7, 2012
  9. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    I often read articles on that site, I have even read a few articles on reformed sites, I don't say such about them.
     
    #29 quantumfaith, Jul 7, 2012
  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    QF,
    Whatever site we read...we must exercise caution.Among reformed men there are some horrible sites also. I do not think as many, because most all of the reformed men have a confessional base.Let me give an example.

    A few years ago the Auburn Avenue conference harmed many churches.
    many had respect for Doug Wilson and his work with christian education, and pulpit ministry. He and others went too far in their views...and now are viewed as dangerous ....people are urging them to recover themselves from the errors they taught at that conference.
    God alone knows the heart as we know....but openly published error has to be opposed...no matter where it shows up.

    Some of these big name pastors, go into print...writing a book....then it makes it harder for them to back out of it.

    As time permits....I will go back to that site,and seek to demonstrate what I find very dangerous and indeed poison.

    QF....just like in the western movies...the thirsty wagon train let the cattle drink of what they thought was much needed water, but turned out to be alkaline and it poisoned them......bet the cattle thought it tasted good on the way down though:thumbsup::wavey::thumbsup:
     
    #30 Iconoclast, Jul 7, 2012
  11. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    You do not need to for my sake. I am capable and competent to read most things and determine whether i agree or not, and whether or not I need to keep reading.
     
    #31 quantumfaith, Jul 7, 2012
  12. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    He's a legend in his own mind. :laugh:
     
    #32 Winman, Jul 7, 2012
  13. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    you have drank much from the poison water yourself winman, to a point where you cannot get any verse correct...so I do not worry about your imput.I do not need to see you twist eccl 7:29 over and over again:laugh::laugh:


    wait,wait...let me start it for you...all men are born sinless until they commit their own sin...no matter what romans 3 or romans 5 teach....:laugh:

    what is legendary is anyone can see what you post, take the opposite position and be correct everytime.
     
    #33 Iconoclast, Jul 8, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 8, 2012
  14. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    ok qf....it was you who said what
    I posted was a low blow...I was going to show why it was not.
     
    #34 Iconoclast, Jul 8, 2012
  15. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    Have you ever read Romans 9:11?

    Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; )

    You were so busy misinterpreting this verse to say God unconditionally elects persons (which it is not saying, it is those who answer the call that are elect-Mat 22:14), that you failed to notice it said neither Esau or Jacob had committed any sin.
     
    #35 Winman, Jul 8, 2012
  16. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    You don't NEED to because it will serve no purpose except to cause you to feel an "attaboy" pat on your back. Just as you think I am in error, I feel much the same about your perspective.
     
    #36 quantumfaith, Jul 8, 2012
  17. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Winman,
    I notice that romans 3 and romans 5 come before romans 9
    Jacob and Esau also died and sinned in Adam.

    The text is saying , before they sinned by experience...highlighting that God's elective purpose was not based on anything man does, ordoes not do.
    So...once again all you have done is show that you resist truth at all costs.:wavey::wavey:
     
    #37 Iconoclast, Jul 8, 2012
  18. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    I understand QF. If you need to view it that way to avoid correction..that is fine. You jumped in to accuse me...but you really do not want an explanation.
    That is why it is okay. i do not see it as a matter of persrective. I see it as truth and error. The recent posts are solidifying my view even more.:wavey:

    At least what we really believe is coming to the surface and being exposed for what it is.
    No one needs to pat themselves on the back QF...it is not about that. It is about truth or the lack of it. it is about a network of people who work at denying truth ...whatever their motives are...the result is the same.
     
    #38 Iconoclast, Jul 8, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 8, 2012
  19. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    HeirofSalvation
    Here is a section from that article hos;


    Because he opposes the truths known as calvinism...he can only ...look and make an observation... that many cals have a complete worldview that is bible based in every detail.

    He fails to realize however that is the very teaching of God given truth that brings about this result. What he sees as missing in non cal churches should not come as a surprise...because that teaching is missing.

    When people study themselves into the truth on these matters, they move on because the church they are in does not want to follow them in study.

    A non cal coming into a cal assembly does not disturb anyone because they see what they believe and what they do not yet believe.

    A cal coming into a non cal church sends them into panic because they are afraid he will open up verses that no one in the church understands...so they get accused of being divisive,arrogant , and every other thing.
    Or some very sactimoniously say...well that is fine for you , but I do not want to look at that teaching, or i have "looked at it" and do not like it.

    Our friend Mr. Olson senses this when he says this;
     
    #39 Iconoclast, Jul 8, 2012
  20. thomas15

    thomas15 Well-Known Member

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    They are all broken! :laugh:
     
    #40 thomas15, Jul 8, 2012
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