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What does the Catholic Church say about us who believe in salvation by faith alone?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by annsni, May 6, 2016.

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  1. annsni

    annsni Administrator
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    This is an excellent article by Tim Challies. He has been doing a series on false teachers and he recently had a post on Pope Frances being a false teacher. Obviously he got some negative feedback to that and so instead of arguing, he used the Catholic Church's own words to show that we do not teach the same salvation.

    What are your thoughts?

    http://www.challies.com/articles/anti-catholic-or-pro-gospel
     
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  2. Zenas

    Zenas Active Member

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    It is a very accurate portrayal and comparison, although it is Challies who misunderstands the teachings of scripture. Trent got it right, at least on this topic.
     
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  3. annsni

    annsni Administrator
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    And from what I see in Scripture, I will absolutely 100% disagree with you. Challies joins millions of Christians who have the same understanding from the Scriptures from the first century to today.
     
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  4. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Why did you have to check scriptures? why not just faith alone?

    And if you respond......... why did you need to respond? and not just faith alone?

    Faith Alone would be neat trick if anyone actually did it.



    Jesus didn't practice Faith Alone, that be the exemplar footsteps to follow.

    His method is clearly superior.
     
  5. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    This will sum up the stance of the truly converted:

    For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh— Philippians 3:3

    And if anyone has trouble with this:

    I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

    For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ. Galatians 1:8-10


    God beat apostate Rome to the punch having already pronounced His anathema on all false gospels, including the RC version. Ironic isn't it?
     
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  6. Zenas

    Zenas Active Member

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    Apparently these passages of scripture didn’t make it into Challies’ Bible, or yours either.

    “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’ Matthew 25:34-40.

    Not even any hint of faith here.

    And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.” Matthew 18:34-35.

    Nothing about faith here either, but maybe a little work in forgiving your neighbor will be required.

    “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.” John 15:1-2

    Nothing about faith here but you mustbear fruit or you’re toast.

    You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead. James 2:24-26.

    Anyone who say works isn't necessary to go to Heaven is living is denial.
     
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  7. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    As is typical of apostate Rome, there is the quoting of the passages of Scriptures that describe what salvation looks like (descriptive) and making them into prescriptive passages (do this and you'll go to heaven).

    That's another gospel altogether.

    And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life. 1 John 5:11-13
     
  8. annsni

    annsni Administrator
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    Wow! So we don't need Jesus. Just do good things and we know that we can stand before God and say "Open the door to heaven because I was a good person and I earned it!!" And what verse would that be?
     
  9. Zenas

    Zenas Active Member

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    All I did is what the sola fide crowd always does--quote the faith passages and ignore the works passages. I did the opposite. Of course you must have both. Neither is optional. The differences lie not so much in faith vs. works but in the concept "once saved, always saved" or as Baptists put it, "eternal security of the believer."

    The eternal security doctrine relies on scripture like John 10:28 and unfortunately ignores other passages that have to be harmonized with it. It was unheard of before the Reformation and is still rejected by the overwhelming majority of Christians. It is perhaps best expressed in the Baptist Faith and Message which says in Part V:

    All true believers endure to the end. Those whom God has accepted in Christ, and sanctified by His Spirit, will never fall away from the state of grace, but shall persevere to the end. Believers may fall into sin through neglect and temptation, whereby they grieve the Spirit, impair their graces and comforts, and bring reproach on the cause of Christ and temporal judgments on themselves; yet they shall be kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.

    Implicit in this belief is the concept that when a person is saved all sins are forgiven, past, present and future. Now I don't believe that because there are too many passages that talk about people going to Hell for bad works or for failure to do good works. Moreover it completely vitiates 1 John 1:8-10.

    I fully embrace Ephesians 2:8-10 as the formula for salvation. However, after that you must maintain your salvation by good works and refraining from sin. Falling from grace is real and scriptural. Galatians 5:4.

    So yes, faith alone is heresy.
     
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  10. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    How many works did the thief on the cross have?
    True saving faith will always result in good works, given time (Ephesians 2:8-10), but works are the result and the proof of salvation, not the cause.
     
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  11. Zenas

    Zenas Active Member

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    Maybe you should go back and read my post, or at least this part of it: I fully embrace Ephesians 2:8-10 as the formula for salvation. However, after that you must maintain your salvation by good works and refraining from sin.
    The thief had no opportunity to do any good works or, for that matter to commit any sins. When Jesus declared he was pure, he was pure, and he died that way. Now let's imagine that Pilate had gotten a change of heart about this thief--Dismas was his name according to tradition-- and ordered him taken down from the cross. Now he starts to feel lucky and returns to his old way of life. I submit that Dismas would never have seen the inside of the pearly gates.

    And while works may be the result of salvation, sometimes, they are not necessarily the proof. Do you think our Mormon friends are saved? You would be hard pressed to find anyone who does more good works than a faithful Mormon.
     
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  12. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I'm delighted to hear that you accept salvation by faith alone, which is what Ephesians 2:8-10 teaches. However, the idea that having been saved by Christ, you can be somehow 'unsaved;' that you can be 'in Christ' one minute, and out again the next, and maybe back in again at some later stage, is not biblical. "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. I and My Father are one" (John 10:27-30). Please notice that Christ's sheep have been given to Him by the Father (John 6:37-40). Is He going to lose any of them? I don't think so.

    Those who are saved by Christ are those who have been born again by the Holy Spirit. They are no longer what they were. They cannot and do not live they way they used to (1 John 1:6; 5:18 etc.). It is possible for one of Christ's sheep to become a lost sheep for a while, but the Good Shepherd will come and find him and bring him back (Luke 15:4-7). If He does not do so; if the erring sheep never returns to the fold, it is because he is not one of the Lord's flock. "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them and they follow Me." To unrepentant sinners, our Lord is going to say, "I never knew you!" Not, "I knew you once and then forgot about you."
    Amen! He is a fine example of salvation by faith alone.
    Imagination should have no part in theology. Hear the word of God. 'What God has cleansed, you must not call common' (Acts 10:15). The thief had been born again by the Spirit of God. His eternal destiny was absolutely secure. 'Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy, to God our Saviour, who alone is wise, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and forever, Amen' Jude 24-25).
    Good works cannot help those who have not been saved by grace through faith in Christ alone. To the unsaved, good works are like filthy rags.
     
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  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    trent got it totally wrong, as they missed the Justification of the gospel of Jesus, as expounded unto us thru and by Apostle paul...

    And we know that they are in rejection of the true Gospel message, as trent made it quite clear that anyone like me, who denies the truths of the papacy, water baptism as saving you, sacramental grace system, and who holds to saved by grace alone thru faith alone, are condemned by God....
     
  14. JohnDeereFan

    JohnDeereFan Well-Known Member
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    In hermeneutics, one of the first things you learn is that verses and passages can only be properly understood when read in context. A good rule of thumb is, if a verse begins with a conjunction (in this case, the word "then"), you should go back and read the previous verses first.

    Had you done so in this case, you might have seen that the works of the sheep and the lack of work of the goats were not a means of salvation, but merely identifying marks of salvation, just like we're told in Ephesians 2:8-10, that we are "saved unto good works", not saved by good works.

    Again, this is another case where knowing the rules of context would have helped you. Notice that, like your last example, this passage begins with a conjunction, which tells us that something very important to understanding the context came before.

    In this case, had you read the previous verses, you would have seen that this is a parable, not a teaching about the means of salvation.

    And Christians are to bear fruit. The fruit we bear is one of the identifying marks of our salvation. But nowhere in this passage are told that works are a means of salvation.

    The problem is that, as the previous verses show, he's talking about works as an identifying mark of salvation, not a means of salvation.

    Does your Bible not have vv 1-23 of this chapter?
     
  15. JohnDeereFan

    JohnDeereFan Well-Known Member
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    Genesis 15:6 "And he believed the Lord; and the Lord reckoned it to him as righteousness."

    Isaiah 55:1 ""Come, all you who are thirsty, come to the waters; and you who have no money, come, buy and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without cost."

    Matthew 7:22-23: "Many will say to me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?' And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

    Luke 5:20: "And when he saw their faith, he said unto them, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee."

    Luke 18:10-14: "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men —robbers, evildoers, adulterers— or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.' But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.' I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God."

    Luke 23:40-43: "But the other criminal rebuked him. 'Don't you fear God,' he said, 'since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.' Then he said, 'Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.' Jesus answered him, 'I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.'"

    John 3:16: "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, so that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

    John 3:18: "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."

    John 6:28-29: "Then they said unto him, 'What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?' Jesus answered and said unto them, 'This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.'"

    John 5:24: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."

    John 6:40: "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

    John 6:47: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life."

    Acts 10:43: "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."

    Acts 16:31: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved."

    John 14:6: "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh to the Father, but by me."

    Acts 26:18: "...that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in me..."

    Romans 1:17-18: "Therefore the just shall live by faith. The wrath of God is indeed being revealed from heaven against every impiety and wickedness of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness."

    Romans 3:28: "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."

    Romans 4:5: "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

    Romans 5:1: "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."

    Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

    Romans 10:9: "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

    Romans 11:6: "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."

    Romans 14:23: "...for whatsoever is not of faith is sin."

    Corinthians 1:21: "For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe."

    Galatians 2:16: "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

    Galatians 2:21: "I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."

    Galatians 3:1-3; 9-14; 21-25: "O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Receive ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? ... So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree. That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.... Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the Scripture harh concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster."...
     
  16. JohnDeereFan

    JohnDeereFan Well-Known Member
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    ...


    Galatians 5:4,5: "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith."

    Ephesians 1:13-14: "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory."

    Ephesians 2:8-10: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

    Philippians 3:9: "And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith."

    Galatians 3:8: "The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith..."

    1 Timothy 1:16: "However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all long suffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life."

    Titus 3:5: "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost."


    And, just as a little extra bonus for you, since I know how much you guys say you love the ECFs, here's some ECFs for you:

    Clement of Rome (c. 30-100): “And we [Christians], too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.” (Clement Alexandria. Epistle to the Corinthians.)


    Justin Martyr (d. 165) in his Dialogue with Trypho: “No longer by the blood of goats and of sheep, or by the ashes of a heifer . . . are sins purged, but by faith, through the blood of Christ and his death, who died on this very account.” (Justin Martyr. Dialogue with Trypho.)

    Didymus the Blind (c. 313-398): “. . . a person is saved by grace, not by works but by faith. There should be no doubt but that faith saves and then lives by doing its own works, so that the works which are added to salvation by faith are not those of the law but a different kind of thing altogether." (Didymus the Blind. Commentary on James, 2:26b)

    Hilary of Poitiers (c 315-67) on Matthew 20:7: “Wages cannot be considered as a gift, because they are due to work, but God has given free grace to all men by the justification of faith." (Finch, George. A Sketch of the Romish Controversy. pp. 230)

    Basil of Caesarea (329-379): “Let him who boasts boast in the Lord, that Christ has been made by God for us righteousness, wisdom, justification, redemption. This is perfect and pure boasting in God, when one is not proud on account of his own righteousness but knows that he is indeed unworthy of the true righteousness and is (or has been) justified solely by faith in Christ.” (Chemnitz. Examination of the Council of Trent. 1:505.)

    Ambrose (c. 339-97): “Therefore let no one boast of his works, because no one can be justified by his works; but he who is just receives it as a gift, because he is justified by the washing of regeneration. It is faith, therefore, which delivers us by the blood of Christ, because blessed is he whose sins are forgiven, and to whom pardon is granted.” (Finch. A Sketch of the Romish Controversy. pp. 220.)

    Jerome (347-420) on Romans 10:3: “God justifies by faith alone.” (Deus ex sola fide justificat). (Jerome. Epistolam Ad Romanos. Caput X, v. 3, PL 30:692D)

    Chrysostom (349-407): For Scripture says that faith has saved us. Put better: Since God willed it, faith has saved us. Now in what case, tell me, does faith save without itself doing anything at all? Faith’s workings themselves are a gift of God, lest anyone should boast. What then is Paul saying? Not that God has forbidden works but that he has forbidden us to be justified by works. No one, Paul says, is justified by works, precisely in order that the grace and benevolence of God may become apparent."(Chrysostom. Homily on Ephesians. 4.2.9..)

    Augustine (354-430): Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness (Rom. 4:3; Gen. 15:6). Abraham, then, was justified by faith. Paul and James do not contradict each other: good works follow justification. (Augustine. Expositions of the Psalms 1-32. Exposition 2 of Psalm 31.)

    Augustine (354-430): “When someone believes in him who justifies the impious, that faith is reckoned as justice to the believer, as David too declares that person blessed whom God has accepted and endowed with righteousness, independently of any righteous actions (Rom 4:5-6). What righteousness is this? The righteousness of faith, preceded by no good works, but with good works as its consequence." (Augustine. Expositions of the Psalms 1-32. Exposition 2 of Psalm 31.)

    Ambrosiaster (4th century), on Rom. 3:24: “They are justified freely because they have not done anything nor given anything in return, but by faith alone they have been made holy by the gift of God.”

    Cyril of Alexandria (412-444): For we are justified by faith, not by works of the law, as Scripture says (Gal. 2:16). By faith in whom, then, are we justified? Is it not in him who suffered death according to the flesh for our sake? Is it not in one Lord Jesus Christ?" (Russell, Norman. Against Nestorius (Cyril of Alexandria). pp. 165.)
     
  17. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    That's real cute when folks butcher half what they say.


    Clement of Rome



    Let us therefore join with those to whom grace is given by God. Let us clothe ourselves in concord, being humble and self- controlled, keeping ourselves far from all backbiting and slander, being justified by works and not by words. . . . Why was our Father Abraham blessed? Was it not because of his deeds of justice and truth, wrought in faith? . . . So we, having been called through his will in Christ Jesus, were not justified through ourselves or through our own wisdom or understanding or piety or works which we wrought in holiness of heart, but through faith, whereby the almighty God justified all men. (Letter to the Corinthians 30:3, 31:2, 32:3-4 [A.D. 95]).

    Theophilus of Antioch

    Give studious attention to the prophetic writings, and they will lead you on a clearer path to escape the eternal punishments and to obtain the eternal good things of God. He who gave the mouth for speech and formed the ears for hearing and made eyes for seeing will examine everything and will judge justly, granting recompense to each according to merit. To those who seek immortality by the patient exercise of good works, he will give everlasting life, joy, peace, rest, and all good things, which neither has eye seen nor ear heard, nor has it entered into the heart of man. For the unbelievers and for the contemptuous, and for those who do not submit to the truth but assent to iniquity, when they have been involved in adulteries and fornications and homosexuality and avarice and in lawless idolatries, there will be wrath and indignation, tribulation and anguish, and in the end such men as these will be detained in everlasting fire (To Autolycas 1:14 [ca. A.D. 181]).

    Clement of Alexandria



    When we hear, 'Your faith has saved you,' we do not understand the Lord to say simply that they will be saved who have believed in whatever manner, even if works have not followed. To begin with, it was to the Jews alone that he spoke this phrase, who had lived in accord with the law and blamelessly and who had lacked only faith in the Lord (Stromateis or Miscellanies 6:14:108:4 [post A.D. 202]).

    Origen

    Whoever dies in his sins, even if he profess to believe in Christ, does not truly believe in him; and even if that which exists without works be called faith, such faith is dead in itself, as we read in the epistle bearing the name of James (Commentaries on John 19:6 [A.D. 226-232]).

    Cyprian



    You, then, who are rich and wealthy, buy for yourself from Christ gold purified in fire, for with your filth, as if burned away in the fire; you can be like pure gold, if you are cleansed by almsgiving and by works of justice. Buy yourself a white garment so that, although you had been naked like Adam and were formerly frightful and deformed, you may be clothed in the white garment of Christ. You who are a matron rich and wealthy, anoint not your eyes with the antimony of the devil, but with the salve of Christ, so that you may at last come to see God, when you have merited before God both by your works and by your manner of living (Works and Almsgiving 14 [A.D. 252]).

    Aphracrtes

    Great is the gift which he that is good has given to us. While not forcing us, and in spite of our sins he wants us to be justified. While he is in no way aided by our good works, he heals us that we may be pleasing in his sight. When we do not wish to ask of him, he is angry with us. He calls out to all of us constantly; "Ask and receive, and when you seek, you shall find" (Treatises 23:48 [A.D. 336-345]).

    Gregory of Nyssa



    Paul, joining righteousness to faith and weaving them together, constructs of them the breastplates for the infantryman, armoring the soldier properly and safely on both sides. A soldier cannot be considered safely armored when either shield is disjoined from the other. Faith without works of justice is not sufficient for salvation; neither is righteous living secure in itself of salvation, if it is disjoined from faith (Homilies on Ecclesiastes 8 [ca. A.D. 335- 394]).

    John Chrysostom



    He that believes in the Son has everlasting life." Is it enough, then, to believe in the Son,' someone will say, 'in order to have everlasting life?' By no means! Listen to Christ declare this himself when he says, 'Not everyone who says to me, "Lord! Lord!" shall enter into the kingdom of heaven'; and the blasphemy against the Spirit is alone sufficient to cast him into hell. But why should I speak of a part of our teaching? For if a man believe rightly in the Father and in the Son and in the Holy Spirit, but does not live rightly, his faith will avail him nothing toward salvation (Homilies on the Gospel of John 31:1[circa A.D. 391]).

    Jerome

    But since in the Law no one is justified before God, it is evident that the just man lives by faith.' It should be noted that he does not say that a man, a person, lives by faith, lest it be thought that he is condemning good works. Rather, he says the 'just' man lives by faith. He implies thereby that
    whoever would be faithful and would conduct his life according to the faith can in no other way arrive at the faith or live in it except first he be a just man of pure life, coming up to the faith by certain degrees (Commentaries on Galatians 2:3:11 [A.D. 386]).

    Augustine

    "He was handed over for our offenses, and he rose again for our justification." What does this mean, "for our justification?" So that he might justify us, so that he might make us just. You will be a work of God, not only because you are a man, but also because you are just. For it is better that you be just than that you are a man. If God made you a man, and you made your-self just, something you were doing would be better than what God did. But God made you without any cooperation on your part. You did not lend your consent so that God could make you. How could you have consented, when you did not exist? But he who made you without your consent does not justify you without your consent. He made you without your knowledge, but he does not justify you without your willing it (Sermons 169:13 [inter A.D. 391-430]).

    But we know that God does not hear sinners: but if any man is a worshiper of God and does his will, that man God will hear. He still speaks as one only anointed. For God does listen to sinners too. If God did not listen to sinners, it would have been all in vain for the publican to cast down his eyes to the ground and strike his breast saying: "Lord, be merciful to me, a sinner." And that confession merited justification, just as the blind man merited enlightenment (Homilies on the Gospel of John 44:13 [A.D. 416]).



    "Faith Alone" is same as FAITH OF DEMONS. They Trust God, are confident of God, Believe God they meet all your criteria.

    They don't love God its the ingredient they are missing and the one you are missing.



    Allegiance to God, LOVING GOD is required. That word FAITH has no indicator of allegiance.

    The DEVIL has faith in GOD, Devout DEVIL worshipers have FAITH in GOD.



    Scripture says you can have PERFECT FAITH, How many mountains have you moved today? Imagine you have faith and DO MOVE mountains. Yet again the one ingredient the one thing that separates good from evil is a GOOD WORK called Love.

    1 Corinthians 13

    2If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.



    If it all hinged on faith, then faith would be GOD and the GREATEST.

    1 Corinthians 13
    13But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.


    Love is the greatest, and LOVE IS GOD. 1 John 4.
     
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  18. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    The passages in Matthew 25 and 18 are not even dealing with salvation per se. That Jesus did not mention faith in these passages does not negate Sola Fide.

    The passage in John 15 does, indeed, talk about works, but not in the way you are suggesting. Justification is by faith alone, but not a faith that does not produce works. James was right when he said faith without works is dead, but James was not negating faith. The person who repents of their sins, and places their faith in Christ, will display good works as a consequence of the new birth, not a prerequisite for the new birth. Martin Luther famously had a problem with the Book of James because he thought it was teaching a synergistic view of salvation: faith and works. That's not what James was teaching at all. James was making the point that true saving faith always produces good works. In fact, James frames his question to make that very point in 2:14, "What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?" Works have no salvific effect, but they are visible and tangible proof that salvation has taken place.

    Also, I notice you completely ignore Ephesians 2:9 which clearly teaches that salvation is not the result of works. Paul restates this truth in 2 Tim. 1:9; Titus 3:5. Rom. 3:20 is also worth looking at.

    So, are works necessary to go to heaven? Only if you mean as evidence of salvation which is by faith alone.
     
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  19. Adonia

    Adonia Active Member
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    John 5:28… The hour comes when all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth (to be judged); they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    (2Co 5:10) For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Therefore, knowing the terror of the Lord, we persuade men… (to labor to be accepted of God ~v 9)

    (Ecc 12:14) For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

    Hos 4:9 And there shall be, like people, like priest: and I will punish them for their ways, and reward them their doings.

    Looks like faith alone might be a problem.
     
  20. JohnDeereFan

    JohnDeereFan Well-Known Member
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    Nothing to do with sola fide. This verse is about the resurrection of the dead, not sola fide.

    Helps if you read the whole passage. If you had, you would have seen that this passage is about rewards at the Bema Seat Judgment, not about salvation and certainly not works-based salvation.

    Two problems here. The first is that Ecclesiastes would be under the Old Covenant, before men were saved, when sin was only covered and not forgiven.

    The second is that this is referring to judgment, not to salvation.


    See above.

    Not for us. The Bible is clear that we are saved by grace through faith, not by works.
     
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