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What does your bible say? Take II

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Deacon, Jan 25, 2005.

  1. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    I'm studying about the tragic life of Michal this week and stumbled into an interesting textual problem that parallels a topic we had about Goliath a while back.

    WHAT DOES YOUR BIBLE SAY?

    The books of Samuel have quite a few textual difficulties.

    In 2 Samuel 19:8, older versions, including the KJV read:

    2 Samuel 21:8 But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite: KJV

    Many modern versions differ:

    2 Samuel 21:8 So the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, Armoni and Mephibosheth whom she had borne to Saul, and the five sons of Merab the daughter of Saul, whom she had borne to Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite. NAS 95
    (bolding added)

    Now Saul had two daughters, Michal and Merab.

    Mirab was married to Adriel (1 Sam 18:19).

    Both the LXX and the MT use Michal's name.

    This one seems like a no brainer to me but when is it proper to correct the text?

    Rob
     
  2. Bluefalcon

    Bluefalcon Member

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    "Merab" is correct here, and actually 2 MT MSS read that here, as well as some LXX MSS. The Syriac has "Nadab", which is a corruption of M sounding like N, and D being confused with R in Hebrew. The most interesting reading is the Aramaic, which reads, "...the five sons of Merab that Michal the daughter of Saul brought up..." either a conflation of the other two readings or the original which was borrowed from by those that read just "Merab" and those that read just "Michal". But I still think that "Merab" is correct. It is possible for almost all MT (Massoretic Text) MSS to be corrupt, and 2 Sam. 21:19 is a perfect example.

    Yours,

    Bluefalcon
     
  3. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Active Member
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    The English translation by John Nelson Darby
    has the following at 2 Samuel 21:8

    "the five sons of [the sister of] Michael"
     
  4. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Just looked it up in my library. Mikol (Michal) is used in Masoretic Hebrew; not found in Dead Sea Scrolls (fragment ends at v 6 and doesn't start again until v 15); in LXX.

    Interesting note: In my Douay Catholic Bible it says Michol, but with an asterisk. It adds that these were actually the children of Merob, but that Michol raised them as her own. She was a type of the Blessed Virgin, ever chaste yet raising the children of Joseph.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
  5. robycop3

    robycop3 Active Member
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    I wonder about the "chaste" part, Dr. Bob. I believe the DR blew it. Michal was David's wife for awhile with no probs between them until she mocked David for his "dirty dancing" as the ark was being returned. It was after she mocked david for his exhibition that he declared her childless, meaning he wasn't gonna "know" her any more. But I'm sure they had consummated their marriage, as they had been husband & wife for awhile.
     
  6. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Michal as a type of Mary would be strange indeed.

    She had been married to two men, David and Paltiel.

    After David's becoming king, he re-claimed his first wife, Saul's daughter Michal, much to the dismay of the second husband.

    No word of what Michal felt about leaving her second husband, but this was just prior to the incident of her denigrating David for his immodest display of worship.

    Rob
     
  7. robycop3

    robycop3 Active Member
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    Thanx, Deacon; I'd forgotten about Palti. I'm sure they hadn't been celibate during their marriage.

    The RCCs are always looking for a "type" of virgin to compare to Mary. They totally ignore the mentions of Jesus' brothers and sisters in Scripture.
     
  8. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    You can see the problem that the translators had in the past. It was a real dilemma; either correct the text by changing the name from Michal to Merab or change the meaning of "borne".

    They chose to change the meaning of the Hebrew word yalad which normally means to bear, beget, bring forth, gender, travail and substituted a meaning that allowed them to keep the original word, the substituted meaning was to raise, or bring up. Nowhere else is it tanslated that way. it's a corrupt meaning.

    ...and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite: KJV

    The availability of additional texts have given us a wider range of possible solutions to the problem.

    Rob
     
  9. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    This is very reminiscent of some of the explanations used by the KVJOs in other areas. Some people will say anything ...
     
  10. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    The Latin Vulgate:
    2 Samuel 21:8 tulit itaque rex duos filios Respha filiae Ahia quos peperit Saul Armoni et Mifiboseth et quinque filios Michol filiae Saul quos genuerat Hadriheli filio Berzellai qui fuit de Molathi

    Which BTW corrects the Hebrew (although my MT does in fact say Michol).

    HankD
     
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