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What Happend to Faith and Trust in the Bible?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by mjwegs42, Sep 7, 2004.

  1. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    You missed it Sister.
    It isn't about "seede" or "seed".
    The KJV1611 says "the",
    the KJV1769 says "thy"
    Why did the KJV1769 change a perfect
    KJV1611? I note most MVs follow the
    KJV1769 here.

    Please give the reason
    why verses were added to the sources
    for the kjv.

    [​IMG] Praise Iesus [​IMG]
     
  2. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Speaking of the subject:
    I have faith
    in all the Bibles containing the Written
    Word of God. The one i've been studying
    most this year is the Holman Christian
    Standard Bible of 2003 (HSCB).

    [​IMG] Praise Iesus [​IMG]
     
  3. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    IF the AV1611 were perfect . .

    Ah, I won't go there. Ed shows the fallacy.

    And the "why can't we just get along" didn't work for Dukakis, either.

    I have 100% faith and trust in God's Word. Knowing that every translation in every language will have nuances and theological interpretations that must be understood, I opt for the Hebrew and Greek.
     
  4. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    What a good example of how to show that many words are better than some. You know that to be absolutely wrong. Amount means nothing. Accuracy cannot compare to numbers of words in anything. The accuracy of a text is not determined by the number of words alone.
     
  5. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    Me too. I don't have trouble with what I don't understand but with what I do. What I do understand will last me a lifetime of application and study.
     
  6. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Nothing </font>[/QUOTE]Faith and
    Trust in the Bible is alive and
    well in dozens of good English Bibles alone
     
  7. russell55

    russell55 New Member

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    You're welcome, but just for your info, russell55 is a she. [​IMG]
    (It's a surname, rather than a first name.)
     
  8. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    So, just for the record, as to know the full background and better understand what you as the originator of the thread meant, are you KJVO, kjV Preferred, do you use MV's or a combination? This will give you more or less credibility one way or the others on what you actually meant in my book. [​IMG]

    AVL1984 [​IMG]
     
  9. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    mjwegs42: "Please just answers! not arguments"

    Actually your questions are poorly written.
    Being poorly written means they will be unlikely to
    produce answers and likely to produce arguments.

    mjwegs42: "1. God has promised he would preserve his word.
    Why do we/you limit him?"

    I believe also that God has promised He would preserve His word.
    I do NOT believe that Psalm 12:7 says God will preserve His word. The proof Texts are elsewhere.

    Further, it really does limit God's word to have one and only
    one rendering of it in English.
    BTW, God has two Words:
    1. God's written word, the Holy Bible
    2. God's Living WOrd, Messiah Jesus

    mjwegs42: "2. Why can we not accept one true form of Gods preserved word?"

    We should accept God's Living WOrd, Messiah Jesus in
    one true form: prerserved for eternity
    Because God chose to preserve His Written Word
    in various languages there is no reason to limit ourselves
    to one and only one form of God's preserved word.

    Mjwegs42: "3. Why, if you have Faith in God (which means in everything)
    do you use multiple versions of Gods word. Would this not mean you are Faithless in his preservation?"

    This means you are Faithful in His preservation.
    God preserved His written word in many expresssions.
    To use more than one is an expression of one's Faith in God.
    Won't you now show your Faith in God's ability to preserve His written
    Word in multiple containers?

    [​IMG] Praise Iesus, Sonne of God [​IMG]


    [unnecessary, sardonic English lesson deleted]

    [ September 08, 2004, 08:25 AM: Message edited by: Pastor_Bob ]
     
  10. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
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    I don't. God has used His Word in many forms over the past 2000 years to save countless people. The best form is the one that communicates the intended message of the originals most accurately.

    A better question would be "Why didn't God preserve one true form of His preserved Word in the languages that He divinely chose to inspire it in?"

    If you have an insight on which of the more than 5000 original language mss is the "true form" (all of which differ from each other) then show your proof and we can move on from there to compare our English versions to it. Why would God deliver one "true form" of His Word in English when He didn't do so for over 1400 years in the original languages?

    BTW, if you are KJVO or TR only, remember that Erasmus used 6-10 differing mss to collate the text that the KJV was eventually derived from.

    As the KJV translators said, by comparing translations we can discern the true sense of scripture much better. I have found this extremely helpful even though I continue to use the KJV as my primary Bible.

    BTW, until the invention of the printing press virtually everyone had a "different version". Not only that, but we can be relatively sure that Christians prior to the close of the Canon used Bibles with non-canonical books in them. Few if any of their Bibles were the complete 66 book Bible that we acknowledge before the late 200's at best.
     
  11. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    --------------------------------------------------
    So, just for the record, as to know the full background and better understand what you as the originator of the thread meant, are you KJVO, kjV Preferred, do you use MV's or a combination? This will give you more or less credibility one way or the others on what you actually meant in my book.

    AVL1984
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Why are you so eager to slap a label on others? Maybe he knows and believes that we have God's words of truth perfectly in our own language, in one Holy Bible, as many other christians know, believe and share. Maybe he also sees the alterations that have been done to God's Holy and pure words in these modern versions, claiming to be the Holy Bible. Why must you always put a label on us? I know. You need to justify yourselve's at the end of the day for your compromise with error.

    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  12. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    --------------------------------------------------
    As the KJV translators said, by comparing translations we can discern the true sense of scripture much better. I have found this extremely helpful even though I continue to use the KJV as my primary Bible.
    --------------------------------------------------

    Where does God tell us this? Does God tell us this? Why do you put the beliefs of the KJB translators, to which many here bash continually, on the same level as God's authority? God tells us not to add to, nor take away from his words and the we are to rightly divide the word of truth, to show ourselves approved unto God. God is my final authority. No man, translator, or anyone else is, nor are their words and beliefs. Many of you prove yourselves hypocrates when you elevate the beliefs of the KJB translators when it fits to your compromise with error, and at the sake of the truth in the scriptures, and then bash them when it suits your opinions and compromise with error.


    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  13. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Interesting. When someone quotes the KJV translators when they say by comparing translations we can discern the true sense of scripture much better, you dismiss it as GOd not having said it. Yet, neither God nor scripture supports single-translation-onlyism, but you accept that position as doctrinal. The hypocrisy of that statement is completely astounding.
    Again interesting. By your own definition, you havew bashed the KJV translators by dismissing their position above. You also do so when you dismiss the FACT that their definition of "lucifer" is "day starre" and not Satan. You're allowed to bash the KJV translators, but when someone else does, you berate them. Again, more hypocisy.
     
  14. russell55

    russell55 New Member

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    He doesn't. It's the nature of translation from one language to another, though. Words often don't translate straight across. They carry different nuances in the different languages, so knowing several different appropriate words for translating that one word in the original languages, helps get at the sense intended when the words were originally written. So we can know what the words meant to the original audiences, and through that understand better exactly what they mean to us.

    He didn't. He just agrees with the KJB translators, because he is using his noggin just like they were. His common sense understanding agrees with theirs.

    How is getting the true sense of the meaning of the words adding or taking away from God's word? Isn't that the very definition of rightly dividing God's word of truth--studying it to know what it means?

    Really? Then you ought to be able to quote some of God's revelation to us that supports the KJV as the only valid form of his word in the English language. Where did God say it, if he is really your final authority?

    Those who claim that God is their final authority, ought not to speak dogmatically about things that aren't laid out for us plainly in scripture. Otherwise, all the pious statements of faith that God's authority is final ring mighty hollow.

    No one has done this! Agreeing with someone, and using their opinions as support for your own is hardly the same thing as elevating their beliefs to the level of scripture. Please!
     
  15. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    Please prove the allegations towards the brethren that you've made. YOu seem to elevate the KJV to the level of God. Wouldn't that make it an idol and you a bibliolator, or a versionalator?

    AVL1984
     
  16. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    Again, FALSE ALLEGATIONS michelle. You truly should be ashamed of yourself. You keep misrepresenting me and I will have to make a formal protest to the moderators for libel. The only people labeling people here are the KJVO's. When those of the MV status fight back it's the KJVO's who scream the loudest. Maybe I asked the question for clarification, not misrepresentation as you seem to continue to do. Grow up, please.

    AVL1984
     
  17. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
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    Not directly but indirectly yes- He did give us 4 gospel accounts of the life of Christ to compare, Kings and Chronicles to compare, and numerous repetitions of the same ideas and doctrines throughout the Bible.
    No. Nor does He say that He will give us His words in English nor that He would provide a single perfect version in any language.
    I don't. They were scholars... with flaws. I am merely pointing out what they said because it happens to be true and because you ascribe divine inspiration to their work.

    In fact it is you that puts their beliefs about the best readings and translations on the same level as God's authority.
    You can't make a translation without violating this principle according to your interpretation. As Johnv said earlier, 'words' should be understood as 'commands', not 'individual units of speech'.
    Then why do you continually abuse scripture by citing it as proof of something that it does not say?
    Where did God say that the KJV was His "very words"?
    Then why have you never cited scripture that says what you believe?
    Nope. We are just honest about who and what they were and what they believed. We can recognize certain greatness along with tremendous flaws.

    It is you that is a slave to your predispositions... you cannot look at these men honestly because you know that such honesty would destroy your assumptions about their works.


    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle [/QB][/QUOTE]
     
  18. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
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    KJVO is simply a short cut to describe what you espouse on this board daily- namely that the KJV is perfect and the "very words of God" in such a way that any difference in another version is a corruption of the Bible.

    More or less, the bottom line with the KJVO label is: "Do they employ the KJV as the standard by which to judge all other English versions?"
     
  19. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Amen, Brother Johnv -- Preach it!! [​IMG]

    For a complete list of such hypocrisies
    check this link to the 9th page of
    a complete listing:
    http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/4/1411/9.html?
    [​IMG]
     
  20. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    Good listing, Brother Ed.

    AVL1984
     
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