What if you're wrong and we are right?

He would not believe that his choice saved him. People like you might confuse him so that he thinks his decision was a part of the salvation mix but he would never proclaim, "I am saved because I walked the aisle", or "prayed the sinner's prayer", or "repented", or "believed", or "was baptized". A truly saved person will come to understand that he contributed nothing to save himself - that, as Jonah said, salvation is of the Lord.

 

And for some reason you have a terribly wrongheaded notion that one can believe in Arminianism and escape any dire consequences if it is false(which it is).

Just far do you take this idea, Brother Bill? Is any non-Calvinistic teaching okay with no dire consequences? What about the teaching I was taught from my youth in the Church of Christ that a person is not saved until he is immersed and the teaching in that same denomination that the Holy Spirit gave us the Bible and that's bascially all of the impact that He has on conversion. Or the teaching in the Church of Christ in which I was raised that only members in good standing in the Church of Christ are saved? These are certainly not Calvinistic teachings so is it okay to adhere to them?

I am afraid your hatred for the doctrines of God's amazing grace has gone to seed, Brother Bill. And it is truly a sad sight to behold.

 

I am afraid you are not making any sense, either. Could you please formulate a clearer question?

The elect are always elect. One doesn't switch between being elect and non-elect.

 

brother bill said

i think you are a bit confused.
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Rom 10:13

you must think this verse says "For whosoever shall call up on the name of the Lord and then make sure to work real hard and never sin again shall be saved"

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Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

If you believe on the Son you have everlasting life. everlasting has no beginning and no end. once your spirit is joined with Christ's (1 Cor 6:17) you are apart of His eternal life. eternal life is never ending. you can't have it and then not have it. if that's true, then it isn't eternal.

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1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

when you get saved you have the Holy Spirit of God indwelling you.
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
You have God living inside you when you are saved. You are His child (John 1:12). He will never let you go and nothing can take you away from Him.

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Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Now tell me if there is anything missing from this list. Is there anything that can separate you from Christ?

Besides, where is the list of which sins will separate you from God if there are any. if i have to keep my salvation by working and not sinning, does it include all sins? or just big ones like murder or adultery? i asked a catholic priest this question before when he was attempting to explain which sins would send you to hell and which would send you to purgatory. he couldn't come up with a response. and i'm guessing you won't be able to either.

 

Thanks for finally asking your question clearly. I said nothing about the number of people being in hell being affected. Please go back and read what I said. I was offering a reason why some will end up in hell even though some Arminian had told them they were saved because they had performed what the Arminian believed to be a salvific act - because Arminianism teaches that election is conditioned on man.

 

Frankly, Brother Bill, and I say this with love in my heart for you, that is a stupid statement. I am saved by the finished work of Christ on my behalf based on the truth that the Holy Spirit has shown me in God's Word. The finished work of Christ is all that can save me and all I can rely upon to save me. I contribute nothing to my salvation. I am safe and secure from all alarms in the arms of Jesus, my Savior and Lord.

Frankly, you should be ashamed of yourself for trying to cause people to worry about frying in hell because they have trusted in the finished work of Christ alone for their salvation and urge others to do the same.

Well, your scare tactics won't work with me. And you other Calvinists who read this thread - you don't buy this snake oil from Brother Bill, either. And you non-Calvinists that read this thread - look at what Arminianism had led Brother Bill to do - trying to make those who trust Christ's work alone for salvation to shut up from telling others the good news of God's amazing grace.

Remember that God's people are safe in the arms of Jesus.

 

If the poor fellow had not fallen for the Arminian trap then he might have been open to hear the gospel of God's amazing grace instead of trusting in human effort for salvation.

I am quite confident that all of God's elect will be saved. But I wouldn't want to be among those who put stumbling blocks in the way of their journey to the truth - which is what all false teaching does. The consequences are not pleasant.

 

Here's what you started this thread by stating - "Please...please...please be careful that your doctrine is sound. If you have the least bit of doubt that you could be wrong, hold back from teaching it to others. Why risk damaging the eternal future of others over a doctrinal belief that is not even practical in our daily ministry? It can only do damage to the cause of Christ!"

You said "damaging the eternal future of others". You said "damage to the cause of Christ". Do you think that one can damage other people's eternal future and do damage to the cause of Christ and go unscathed?

You are hoisted upon your own pitard, Brother Bill.

 

You believe it is applied by something you do. I believe it is applied by something God does. There is a wide gulf between those two positions.

 

Brother Bill,

I am more than willing to stand before God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit with my understanding of the doctrines of God's amazing grace intact, knowing that the finished work of Christ alone is the only basis for my salvation.

Your statements do not trouble me in the least. But we Calvinists must stand up to you so that others will see the errors you are stating and the consequences they are having in your own life by going on this witchhunt against Calvinists.

 

Yep. And there are a lot of Arminians that believe the falsehood of the first four points of Arminianism and then stick eternal security in at the end when their first four points are in direct opposition to it and which gives them a flawed basis for believing in eternal security.