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Featured What is Calvinism?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Barry Johnson, Jan 31, 2021.

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  1. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Now the knee jerk response to this will probably be to assume that this is from someone who doesn't REALLY understand Calvinism and you may simply reply with John Pipers video on Calvinism and tell me if I really want to understand i should hear it from the horses mouth ect ect .
    But this is food for thought , as through my studies on this I've found this summary to be spot on . Sometimes you have to see if the system you have adopted really holds up to scrutiny.
    Thoughts? ( the clip is 12 mins )
     
  2. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Did The Garden of Eden remain, after Adam's sin, and all individual souls are on the same Probation, in which time they may partake of The Tree of Good and Evil, or The Tree of Life?

    "So he drove out the man, and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life." Genesis 3:24.

    Were/are the Cherubims just there, with a flaming sword, for Adam and Eve?

    Is this all Jesus Did? Was just re-create The Garden of Eden?

    Jesus Came to Earth, Was Given a Body, Lived Perfectly, and Died, was Buried, and Rose Again to set up The Garden of Eden?

    People are innocent little sinless babes from the womb and, simply, "make a choice"( in what/ for what?), "believe" ( in what/ for what?), "have faith ( in what/ for what?)".

    The Teaching of The Bible is that all souls PICK Eternal Salvation or Damnation in Hell like they PICK TOMATOES?
     
  3. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    I prefer R. C. Sproul as someone to explain what Calvinism teaches.
     
  4. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I don't have sound at work but I carefully followed the slides.
    My only thought was it seemed sound as a historical and logical argument (irrespective of truth), but seemed to ignore the question of whether or not Scripture actually supports the TULIP interpretation or the alternative presented. Perhaps it was in the sound and simply left out of the graphics.

    For me, the bigger question is not what Augustine or John Calvin THOUGHT, but rather WHAT IS THE TRUTH.
    I came to TU*IP from reading Scripture in a Wesleyan "Church of God of Anderson Indiana" and only later learned that what I believed had a name ... "Reformed Baptist". So John Calvin means NOTHING to me.
     
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  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Or better yet, Apostle Paul!
     
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  6. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    I listened to it at home. The sound changed nothing for the positive. A bit of a “boogeyman” tone to the video, wasn’t there? It made Calvinism infiltrating a church sound like “Invasion of the Body Snatchers”. BEWARE, THEY ARE COMING TO STEAL YOUR BRAINS! :eek: ... :rolleyes:
     
  7. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Active Member

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    And better yet Jesus Christ who taught Paul Gal 1:11-12

    11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

    12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

    Jesus taugt the limited extent of His Death by exclaiming He specifically said He died for His Sheep Jn 10:11,15

    Paul terms it Christs Church Eph 5:25
     
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  8. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    I've watched many of Mr. Thompson's videos over the past few years.
    A few of my impressions:

    In most, he does very little to address the passages that speak to foreknowledge, predestination, calling, justification and several other subjects.
    Rather, he objects to the words on the page and then offers up alternate explanations for them.

    There are many others on YouTube that do this as well.
     
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  9. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    I agree.
    But to me, that is somewhat the reality that anyone faces when they go in among a group of professing believers and bring up passages like Matthew 11:25-27, John 6:25-71, John 8:43-47, John 10:26-28, Acts of the Apostles 2:39, Acts of the Apostles 2:47, Acts of the Apostles 13:48, Romans 8:29-30, Romans 9, Romans 10:16-21, Romans 11:1-8, Ephesians 1:3-14, Ephesians 2:10, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, 2 Timothy 1:9, Titus 3:5-7, 1 Peter 1:2, and many others...
    They are charged ( at least sometimes ) with "infiltration".

    In other words, certain passages are automatically "off limits" because they always end up causing problems.
    To me, this is a far cry from the churches represented in the epistles, who embraced every word that came from Peter, Paul, John and the other apostles as having come directly from the Lord and were worthy of not only unrestricted examination, but of belief no matter what they said.

    I'm reminded of the church that I grew up in, where the sermons were almost always topical,
    and many areas of God's word, especially in the epistles, were never addressed.
    As an example, my former pastor almost always skipped around and never read an entire passage through, nor did we ever read from passages like John 6...
    Except for perhaps John 6:40.

    In fact, it would probably be easier to tell you what was presented to the congregation over the 25 years that I was there,
    than it ever would be to tell you what wasn't presented.

    Sermons tended to revolve around the same subjects over and over, and no one ever asked questions that went any deeper than John 3:16, John 3:36, John 5:24, the "Romans Road", whatever was required memorization in the "AWANA" Pals and Pioneers ( or Chums and Guards ) books, 1 Timothy 2:3-6, 2 Peter 3:9, Hebrews 2:9, 1 John 2:2 or anything else that was in support of the church's doctrines.

    Bible studies were, for the most part, not interactive and nothing was really open for discussion past a certain point.
    The Bible itself was treated more like a high school or college textbook than what is described in Romans 15:4 and 2 Timothy 3:16-17.


    To put it plainly, hardly anyone I knew of in all my years in the two churches I was a member of ( and the ones that they were associated with ), ever went any further than what the pastor did in their understanding of, and their beliefs about, the Bible.
     
    #9 Dave G, Feb 21, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
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  10. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    @atpollard
    So, I understand how some people feel when they charge so-called "Calvinists" with "infiltration".

    Not only do they not agree with what is written ( that's for another thread, but to me, that's been done repeatedly ), it goes outside of all that they have been taught.
    But the reverse could be said of people who come into "Calvinistic" churches and teach loss of salvation or the other points of what some would call "Wesleyan Arminianism".

    That's why I rarely visit any churches in my area ( and if I do, I sit quietly in the back and watch to see if anyone else brings up similar questions that are already on my mind, during Bible studies and sermons ), and why I mainly restrict my comments to professing Christians on forums like this one...
    Because it is far less painful to leave a forum having taken a verbal beating over comments and beliefs,
    than it is to leave an actual church building having taken a physical beating over them.;)

    Believe me when I say that, to some people, it's only one small step to go from being emotionally upset about something, to acting out on it physically.
    There are many people, even some of them professing Christians, that don't seem to have much in the way of self-control nowadays.
    Throw in a Bible doctrine or a related subject that they strongly disagree with, and things could turn violent.

    I'm reminded of a story that I read online somewhere,
    of a professing Christian man who picked up a baseball bat because he was angry at two men who were "KJV-Only";
    Granted, it didn't turn violent, but the fact that he thought that picking up a baseball bat was needed to make his point, tells me quite a bit.

    That's why I stay away from professing Christians, for the most part...

    That and the fact that most Christians that I meet are comfortable listening to men like the one in this thread's video, or worse, like the one in this one:

     
    #10 Dave G, Feb 21, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
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  11. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Another failed attempt.
    Another failed Kevin Thompson video.
    Another D.O. A. thread
     
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  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    A man made distortion of what the Bible actually teaches, especially when it comes to the salvation of ALL sinners!

    The Bible, Which this The Infallible Word of Almighty God, says very clearly, that God VERY MUCH loves every single human being, including the Judas' of this world; and that He desies every single human being, to be saved and come to Jesus Christ for their salvation. Calvinism rejets this and says God does not to either fact! This makes Calvinism FALSE and guilty of teaching FALSE theories!
     
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  13. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Active Member

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    sbg

    lol, so where does the scripture say that ?
     
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  14. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    You may laugh at the Word of God!
     
  15. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    There is no teaching.

    Short-sighted, error assumption in the flesh.
     
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  16. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    who's giggling in the flesh now? with no Bible to turn to, without a sole dependence on a fleshly error?
     
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  17. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Yeah yeah :rolleyes:
     
  18. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    tx
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Are you saying that we hold to a false gospel. heresy, and so are not saved?
     
  20. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Active Member

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    , so where does the scripture say that ?
     
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