What is holiness, and where is it today?

Paul’s advice in Galatians speaks to the same issue.

5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Sin nature is strong but praise be to God the spirit is stronger.

 

Did not know that, do you know of sources that detail his reasoning?

Yes, I agree with practicing holiness, and I don't believe it is about works or earning salvation. You mentioned 1 Peter Chapter 1 earlier, it seems pretty straitforward to me. KJV 1 Peter 1: 13Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Here is another one, NKJV Hebrews 2:1 Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. 2 For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, 3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him, 4 God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will? Salvation is such a precious gift we cannot neglect it, we cannot dwell on our past sins (what the devil wants us to do), but we should be humble before God and own up to our transgressions. If we are truly born again, we cannot lose our salvation, we are preserved in the work of Christ. Our liberty in Christ came at a great price though, and we cannot take it lightly, liberty is not a license to sin.

The prophet Isaiah got it, God has not changed, why can we as believers not understand that?. KJV Isaiah 6:1In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the LORD sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. 2Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. 3And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. 4And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke. 5Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts. 6Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar: 7And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged. 8Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.

 

Amen!! "But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound" :godisgood:

 

I would certainly like very much to be holy. Being sinless is what holy is, isn't it? For my self being holy is being perfect and after many years of striving to be so. I have come to realize that holiness can only be had if God makes me holy. It just seems the harder I try the worse I relize I am

Desire to be holy? Yes of course. And yes we have to be open to the leading of the Holy Spirit.

I just don't believe a man can ever be holy while still in his flesh.

I've met men whom I admire because they seem more holy than myself only to be disappointed, after discovering the truth that they really aren't anymore holy than anyone else.

The only perfect man who ever lived was our Lord. Shouldn't we realize that true holiness, is for us, (in this flesh) impossible. This is not to say give up. It's just admittance of the truth.
MB

 

Note that I did not say I do not separate with some things... Just that separation is not THE most important thing, nor is separation THE biblical definition of holiness.

I find an overemphasis on the act of separation a work that people practice in order to be pleasing to God.

Oh, and for the record, a few of you need to get your panties out of your cracks about the higher education thing. You are missing your own definition of holiness by not separating yourselves from being "accusers of the brethren..."

 

I've never met anyone who could claim true holiness have you?

My reply to your post never mentioned Salvation or being saved but it doesn't matter.
We could not please God before Salvation, and truthfully we don't do much better afterwards either. I would like to meet a trully holy man. I'm not saying it's impossible to do. I just have never met anyone who accomplished true holiness with out pride creeping in.

As I see it everytime man thinks he has accomplished something important. Pride stands up behind him and stabs him in the back with reality. We can only seperate our selves from the flesh for short periods yet eventually the flesh always get a word in edge wise.

What is trully unfortunate is that you seem to read what you have imagined I wrote.
MB

 

I didn't mean to imply sinless perfection and we know from scripture that none is Holy as God: 1Sa 2:2 "No one is holy like the LORD, For there is none besides You, Nor is there any rock like our God.

I agree it is not something we can simply "try" to achieve of our own. That is why I said this. "Do we not have to believe in and be open to Jesus working in our lives to be what pleases God?"

I am not an expert, and it is a hard thought to get our head around, but I don't think we should just dismiss scripture because of that.

"1Th 4:7 For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness."

"Eph 4:24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness."

"1Pe 1:15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,"

This is why we need to look towards Jesus, not man. There is nothing wrong with respecting and trying to emulate someone important in our lives, but we can't place our confidence in them.

I think my other answers addresses this as well. But again I agree we can not be perfect and achieve God's perfect Holiness (1Sam 2:2).

 

What are you so angry about. It has to be more than what you're telling me.
MB

 

My first coment wasn't meant to be taken as accusatory. It was simply the truth about what I thought at the time when I read the OP. My point wasn't to argue the matter at all but to bring up a few points I felt you must have over looked. The first one being is;

Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Since it is Jesus who is the author and finisher of our faith it isn't by man's efforts we aquire any holiness.
If we are bold enough to say we do it our selves or by our selves then we are taking glory for God's own work. because it is He who finishes our faith and our faith comes from His precious Word. Faith is why we seek holiness but it is always God's leading.

I do not disagree that we are commanded to walk uprightly. We are also told to sin no more not to become entangled in it. but man while in his flesh is still a sinfull creature. There has never been a man except for Christ that was sinless.
Ecc 7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.


Holiness as described by Webster's dictionary is a perfection. There is no man with out sin.

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

I'm not trying to say go on and sin because it's so hard not to. I'm saying consider the Lord in everything because He is very much an inside influence. Lean on Him instead of self to do our best. The greatest man that ever live was a God dependent man.
MB

 

Preacher for truth, I believe that you have been surprised by the direction this thread has taken -- and that not just because it has become somewhat antagonistic (don't they all around here?) -- but rather because so many of us don't find that holiness is really described by a set of actions, no matter how good those actions may be.

In this regard, let me say that "Reformed" holiness is not different from "IFB" holiness, but rather that the IFB tends to (as I have experienced) focus on behaviors rather than position. in a sense, you have been taught that proper behavior will assure proper position, but that is not true at all, as exemplified over and again by Christ against the Pharisees who were "professional keepers of the Law" that sought to enact proper behaviors at every turn, yet were called "whitewashed sepulchers" by Jesus, Himself for their actions.

A desire to be set apart for God's use and to be conformed to the image and likeness of Jesus Christ will probably produce the good works you suggest, but producing the good works you suggest may not cause one to be conformed to the image and likeliness of Christ. I'm hoping that you see the distinction here, as it is a tad nuanced, but nonetheless true. With Christ, it is always relationship first, and it is our relationship with Christ that causes the positional reality that actually brings us personal holiness. In other words, we are holy because we are imputed with Christ's holiness, and then because we have His indwelling presence, we can do things that work in concert with our sanctification process.

To one stepped in the doctrinaire IFB processes, this must all seem so very "watered down" but in truth it is anything but. Rather, it is the remarkable, astounding, magnificent grace of God at work within us! Praise Him! We don't have to work out our salvation by exercises of the will as does every other religion on earth. We are saved by Christ's atonement and then set to work as His ambassadors, bringing reconciliation, love, unity in the faith, and yes, good deeds and works to this sin-dead world.