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What is love?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Helen, Apr 5, 2006.

  1. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Then why are they considered "enemies"?

    I think the point is you CAN love someone you have ill feelings about. We are commanded to love even our enemies...and they wouldn't be enemies without ill will.
     
  2. Calvibaptist

    Calvibaptist New Member

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    So, you think that when Jesus made this statement He was suggesting that we all have to think on the level of a 5-year old? That is not at all what He was saying. He was saying that we have to trust the way a child does.

    Mark 10:15 "Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it."

    This has nothing to do with mental capacity and everything to do with the attitude we have.

    Chapter and verse please? Because I can show you a number of passages that say we can't submit ourselves to the law of God. Here's one for you:

    Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.

    I've already answered this. I do agree that if God commands something, we should do it. That does not assume that we can though. Childlike faith has nothing to do with understanding. It has to do with humbly trusting completely as a child trusts his parents. A child knows his parents well, although he may not understand everything about them. He knows they love him. He knows they feed him. He knows he needs them. This is what Jesus was saying we are to be like with God.

    Ezekiel 11:17-20 Therefore say, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "I will gather you from the peoples, assemble you from the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel." ' 18 "And they will go there, and they will take away all its detestable things and all its abominations from there. 19 "Then I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within them, and take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, 20 "that they may walk in My statutes and keep My judgments and do them; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God.

    Tell me, why would God have to take out their heart of stone and give them a hear of flesh that they may walk in His statutes and keep his judgements if they already had the natural ability to do so?

    Deuteronomy 29:2-4 Now Moses called all Israel and said to them: "You have seen all that the LORD did before your eyes in the land of Egypt, to Pharaoh and to all his servants and to all his land -- 3 "the great trials which your eyes have seen, the signs, and those great wonders. 4 "Yet the LORD has not given you a heart to perceive and eyes to see and ears to hear, to this very day.

    What can I say? God does this at times for His own purposes. I don't know why, but He blinds people from truth, sometimes even His own children.
     
  3. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Then why are they considered "enemies"?

    I think the point is you CAN love someone you have ill feelings about. We are commanded to love even our enemies...and they wouldn't be enemies without ill will.
    </font>[/QUOTE]I linked you to the chapters I cited above. If you read them you will have your answer. They're not long.
     
  4. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Will a five year old trust this? Can someone trust without understanding?
     
  5. Calvibaptist

    Calvibaptist New Member

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    Will a five year old trust this? Can someone trust without understanding?
    </font>[/QUOTE]Respectfully, webdog, the quote from Matthew refers to entering into the kingdom. Some five-year olds can understand that they are sinners and Christ, who is God's Son, died to take away sin and rose again on the third day. They can understand that they must turn from their sin and turn to God, relying on Him entirely for salvation. That is the gospel they can understand.

    All that being said, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with this conversation. We are not talking about the basics of the gospel. We are talking about deep theological questions. My quote that you put down has nothing to do with what someone must understand to receive the gospel. It has everything to do with a more mature person digging into the truths of Scripture.

    And, yes, someone can trust without understanding. Do you fully understand everything there is to understand about God? Do you trust Him?
     
  6. DeeJay

    DeeJay New Member

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    Good question, I cannot explain God's love (his nature, his character) except that it is unconditional. it is not based on what we do or don't do, it just IS. the fact that God allows man to even exist is LOVE, for God to allow man to enjoy life is LOVE, for God to bestow gifts on the unjust is LOVE. who are we to question how his love should work?

    God is also HOLY, RIGHTEOUS and JUST.
    so in that sense should we not be thankful he even allows anyone to even go to HEAVEN in the first place? that is what you should be questioning, why he even allows sinful man to be saved?
    </font>[/QUOTE]
    Yes all these things are Gods love. But the greatest love:

    Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends.
    John 15:13


    This is the love God has for all the world

    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life
    John 3:16


    You said you can not explain Gods love. Above are two Bible verses the define Gods love. Frankly I dont understand why this is a three page debate. The Bible clearly defines the greatest love in these two verses. God loved the world by sending His Son to die for our sins.

    Love = laying down ones life (ACTION)

    Gods Love = Giving His only begotten Son
    (ACTION)

    Who did God love = For God so loved the world

    I see the greatest love defined as an action, not an emotion.
     
  7. DeeJay

    DeeJay New Member

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    That sounds like a good definition to me.

    It seems to me that faith and love have parallels in that they both result in an actions.
     
  8. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    I appreciate the discussion on this. We are leaving for Australia tomorrow and will be computer-less for a month. I love it when this happens! We purposely do not take along the laptop because we want to concentrate on the people we are with at the time.

    Someone mentioned about trust and asked if you can trust what you cannot understand. Absolutely. A baby and young child trusts the parents. If the parents are good parents, that trust will be maintained for a good long time.

    And if I had to understand God in order to trust Him, I would never be able to trust Him! I understand a little, but compared with what there is to understand about Him, not very much at all, I'm sure!

    Yes, love is a decision. God chose to die for us as Jesus Christ. That choice was a choice of love. He certainly didn't have to and we certainly didn't deserve it.

    We are told to love Him. That means giving up everything we are to Him. It is a choice we can make, to give up to Him or keep going on our own, loving and caring for ourselves above Him.

    We are told to love our neighbors. That means giving up of ourselves to them. If it is to the point of discomfort, it still is not nearly what Jesus did for us.

    Can you love your enemies? Yes, you can. You don't have to feel good about them to care for them and make sure they have what they need.

    Emotions can ride all over the place. But love is a commitment past emotions, past comfort, past self. That is what God did for us. That is what He asks of us. We can't do it without Him in us, but that is what it is all about.

    Choose this day whom you will serve. A real choice. A real demand. And a major theme of the Bible. Which would have been a ridiculous theme if people did not have the opportunity and ability to choose God or choose otherwise. The Calvinist escape route that they have the 'choice' but will always 'choose' against God because of their sin natures is hogwash. When God asks us to choose, it means we actually have a choice, and one of those choices is Him -- and He is available to us. He had MADE Himself available to us -- all of us.

    And that is the message Barry and I will be sharing along with the message that real science and the actual data point to the fact that the Bible is fully trustworthy, from first page to last. We go to encourage our brothers and sisters in Christ and to encourage others to take a look at Christ, the Jesus of the Bible, and see if He is not the answer to the longings of their hearts.
     
  9. Frenchy

    Frenchy New Member

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    Have a great trip Helen! A must deserve one I would imagine. I wouldn't take a laptop either, just would get in the way of God using you both. already said a prayer for a safe and wonderful fruitful time. see ya when you get back safe and sound Lord willing. I'm jealous I want to go! please take me along, i promise i won't talk about Arminian and Calvinism, please, please!

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  10. Frenchy

    Frenchy New Member

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    Two places I want to go before I go home is Australia and Italy. Helen is going to Australia and my son 20 is going to Italy for 2 years in the service. oh well some day :(
     
  11. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    Let's see...you were nasty to her, then accused her of not being able to answer your questions, and now you're praying for her to have a safe trip.
    You've got less consistency than a jello cactus on a freezing summer night.
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Frenchy

    Frenchy New Member

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    Just because I challenge someone doesn't mean I am being mean to them. and it doesn't mean I don't like someone I am having a debate with that i may not agree with on some issues. you Gina have a a very hard time distingushing between the two.

    Evendently you do not recall my kind posts in the past to Helen on her character and bible knowledge. i will try and refresh your memory, i will be right back.
     
  13. Frenchy

    Frenchy New Member

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    Here they are, good thing I have a good memory. give it up Gina, you'll lose every time.

    Post dated March 21

    quote: From Tim

    Helen don't let them get to you. You are doing a great job. Both sides have issues don't stoop to their level.

    Tim.
    ................................................

    Frenchy writes

    and that level would be using God's word to back up personal beliefs

    I don't have a problem with Helen as a person. I am sure she is wonderful and a very caring person, that i do see, and so am i. I just am one who would rather stand firm on God's word than personal opinions, thats all.
    .................................................

    Another post dated March 24th

    Frenchy writes

    I noticed Helen avoided this question I had, please someone answer me this? by the way Helen i totally respect you and your delegence
    to the word of God. You do a very good job in debating,lots of times i agree with you and when i don't i still respect your great answers that keeps me searching the bible for the truths i know in my heart. i have even learned some things from you, thank you. keep up the good fight, and just know i resect you and your opinions.

    having said all that....
    quote: .........blah blah blah
     
  14. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    No rush, I'm going to bed.

    However, saying stupid stuff like "yet she still can't and never has been able to answer my questions" is mean.

    And proves your a troll, given your extensive knowledge of people on here, their past actions, your comfort level with bashing them right away, and your little slips about people "never" and "always" and such, when you supposably just joined a couple weeks ago.

    If I'm wrong and there's another explanation for your words and actions, please explain them. You've been a [personal insult removed] to a number of people, then turn around and play the opposite game. If you're for real, I'd very much like to know why you do this, especially since you claim to be a counsellor, someone who supposably dedicates her life to helping others.

    Are you seeing the discrepancy here? If you're lying, lie better. If you're not, well, please seek help.

    [ April 07, 2006, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: Phillip ]
     
  15. Frenchy

    Frenchy New Member

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    No it means I am hoping that will motivate her to try and answer my questions and if she can't then I must be right in what I said.

    Not everyone acts and treats people mean like you do, trying to start fights and attack their personhood. I attack the message not the messenger. if i do I stand corrected. You really do need to understand the difference and leave me alone and find some other victim or someone else to be jealous of! we are not in high school
    :rolleyes:
     
  16. Frenchy

    Frenchy New Member

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    sounds like you are reading way too much into my posts. I have stayed focus on scripture not people, if you can prove otherwise do so. because I have NO idea what you are talking about. are you the board police?
     
  17. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    Since you didn't answer my questions, I must have been right. :D

    Goodnight Frenchy.

    Sleep tight. [​IMG]

    I'm almost starting to look forward to your posts.
     
  18. Frenchy

    Frenchy New Member

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    Since you can't show me any post where I was mean or know people personally, I must be right. Go ahead and pm those to me to read.

    after your attacks on me I have asked 2 people if i have done anything wrong in my post? both said NO they didn't see anything except using the word Legalistic that that might offend someone. other than that I am no different than anyone else and defently not meaner than you and a few others.
     
  19. Frenchy

    Frenchy New Member

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    Goodnight Gina and remember

    Ephesians 4:25

    "Therefore, laying aside falsehood, speak truth each one of you with his neighbor, for we are members of one another. 26, Be angry, and yet do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, 27, and do not give the devil an opportunity. 29, Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. 30, Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31, Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. 32, Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you."

    [​IMG]
     
  20. DeeJay

    DeeJay New Member

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    Frenchy said:

    Then Frenchy said:

    SO, I must be right in what I said. ;)
     
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