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Featured What is preventing our Savior’s return?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by agedman, Apr 4, 2020.

  1. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    What does Scripture say?
    Act 2:5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven.
    .....
    Act 2:10 “.......Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 “Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.”

    Rom 16:25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began 26 but now made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith—
    or the hymn -
    ... tidings sent to every nation
    millions yet have never heard ....
    Is this where the millennium takes effect?
    Rev 20:2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.​

    The Old Covenant was with Abraham & his descendants, the people of Israel, but ultimately through his Seed for all nations. The New Covenant, in the blood of that Seed is for all nations.

    I don't think Mat. 24:14 implies the Gospel reaching every person on earth. Paul writes -
    Eph. 3:3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power.​

    Nothing is "preventing" Jesus' return. God is working to his plan.
     
  2. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    It's not yet time for His return. It'll be immediately after the great trib ends, as Jesus Himself said in Matt. 24:29-30.
     
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  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    According to Hebrews 9:28 it will be His second appearing.
     
  4. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Is there another outpost of dispensationalism in the world other than the USA? Unless one kicks the bucket first, one is going to go through the Great Tribulation.
     
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  5. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    So what are you saying? Has the Gospel been preached to all nations? Did it happen at the first Pentecost? If it did, then the End came then, but a lot of people didn't notice! If we are now living in the New Heavens and New Earth where righteousness dwells, I have to say I'm a bit disappointed.

    I preached on Matthew 24 a few weeks ago. It's number 5 on here: Catch up on the latest sermons at Scott Drive Church
    I don't recommend myself as a preacher, but it will show you what I believe on the Lord's Return, and I don't believe it has much to do with AD 70.
     
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  6. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Every time there is the slightest hint of doom the coming of the Lord is brought up. The coming of our Lord will happen when men think not of it. When men think they can fulfill the thoughts of there hearts and get away with it because they have plenty of time to repent. The story of the 10 virgins tell it better than I can. The reason I believe God doesn't give a sign of the coming of Christ is to keep us ready. To Keep us looking for His appearance. I personally dread the thought of His coming while I'm doing something that would not be pleasing to Him. I pray this will not happen to any of His children.
    From Jamieson Fausset and Brown:
    Mat_24:6-14). Thus the invitation, “Come,” here, is aptly parallel to Mat_24:14. The opening of the first four seals is followed by judgments preparatory for His coming. At the opening of the fifth seal, the martyrs above express the same (Rev_6:9, Rev_6:10; compare Zec_1:10). At the opening of the sixth seal, the Lord’s coming is ushered in with terrors to the ungodly. At the seventh, the consummation is fully attained (Rev_11:15).
    MB
     
  7. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    The Lamb pouring out His wrath on His bride for no reason seems a bit odd. There is a reason for the pouring of His wrath, but not on His Bride.
     
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  8. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    God gives over to their sins those who are under His wrath (Romans 1:18 etc.). Those whom He loves, He chastens, and scourges every son whom He receives (Hebrews 12:6)..
    God has a gracious purpose in this virus, to bring to Christ more of His errant children.
     
  9. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I am not talking about Covid.
     
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    In summary, the great tribulation (Satan's doing), the resurrection of the saints with the rapture and then the wrath of God followed by the millennium. The final judgement. The New Heaven and Earth - the rest of eternity.
     
  11. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    :Roflmao

    No it is not referring to 70 AD.

    Matt. 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.​

    Jesus did not return "immediately" after 70AD.
     
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  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 24:1-2 was about 70 AD. While Jesus' disciples did in part ask about when, ". . . Tell us, when shall these things be?" His disciples further asked, ". . . and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" To this Matthew recounts Jesus' answer.
     
  13. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    What part of "Immediately after the tribulation....." are you not understanding?
     
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I just skimmed through this thread, but I did not see an answer to the OP question, what is preventing the return of Christ? We know God could bring Christ back without delay, and if any prophecy needs to be fulfilled before His return, God could cause that circumstance to occur. So the better question is "why is God waiting?"

    Someone correctly cited the verse (Romans 11:25) that says God is waiting for the full number of individuals to come into the fold. Calvinists believe they will come in when God compels them via irresistible grace. Otherwise, nobody will come in.
    Thinking God could have caused all the remaining, supposedly previously chosen elect, to come to Christ any time in the past, they see no reason for the delay except the "mystery of God's own timing."

    Why has God not caused the fullness to come in? If God uses believers to carry His message, and persuasion rather than compulsion to bring people to faith, God is waiting for us. Is there any support in scripture for this rather basic truth not mentioned yet in this thread? Hint 2 Peter 3:12

    A timely message from a favorite church: Online Worship | Emmanuel Reformed Church
    The sermon starts at about 11:40.
     
    #34 Van, Apr 5, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
  15. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Millions of Evangelical Christians Want to Start World War III … to Speed Up the Second Coming - Global Research
     
  16. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Interesting responses to the OP!

    One theme that threads its way is that of the redeeming the last of those who are to be redeemed.

    In a slight turn of the topic to self-examination, I am encountering more and more folks who want to "reach the lost" by the influence of friendship rather than the preaching of offensiveness.

    If the return is as a result of God's desire that all those to be saved are in fact given the message and redeemed, is it possible (thinking along the lines of an evangelist) that believers are also preventing (hindering) the return by their own lack of zeal in teaching the message of Christ at every opportunity - in season or not?
     
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  17. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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  18. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    I am Amillennial but have a non-institutional view of the Church. Grace Halsell has much info on this radicalized Dispy mindset in her book Prophecy and Politics.
     
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  19. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    Grace Halwell's books are well researched & convincing. I have read several of them.
     
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  20. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    The questions do not control the answers. Remember that in the pre-Calvary context, Jesus had spoken of his coming in Mat. 21:33-46 which I cited previously -
    38 But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ 39 So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.
    40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?”
    41 They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.”
    42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:
    ‘The stone which the builders rejected
    Has become the chief cornerstone.
    This was the LORD’s doing,
    And it is marvelous in our eyes’
     ?[fn]​
    43 “Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. 44 And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”
    45 Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them. 46 But when they sought to lay hands on Him, they feared the multitudes, because they took Him for a prophet.​

    When did Jesus destroy those wicked men? Mat. 24 tells us in the lifetime of "this generation." AD 70

    What is the fruitful nation? Peter tells us it's you - us, the church, believers. 1 Peter 2:9

    In what sense was that a "coming?" Mat. 24 & Rev. 1 tell us that it was a coming in clouds - evident but not a personal sighting. When he was accused, Jesus quoted Daniel 7 saying they (his accusers) would see him .
    Mat. 26:62 And the high priest arose and said to Him, “Do You answer nothing? What is it these men testify against You?” 63 But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest answered and said to Him, “I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!”
    64 Jesus said to him,It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

    Dan. 7:13 “I was watching in the night visions,
    And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven!
    He came to the Ancient of Days,
    And they brought Him near before Him.
    14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
    That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.​

    According to Daniel, Jesus was coming with the clouds TO the Ancient of Days. He ASCENDED through the clouds.

    And all those who rejected their Messiah, and refused to repent when they heard the Gospel, will see with eyes of understanding that Jesus has truly ascended to his eternal throne, ruling over all peoples, nations, and languages. They will see & understand when his prophecy of their destruction is fulfilled. See also the 70 weeks prophecy.

    The destruction took place on schedule, within the time-scale God revealed. AD 70, 35 years after the crucifixion, while some of "this generation" had not passed away. They had 35 years to repent.

    We have no specific warnings. We have the Gospel for all nations. Many things can be considered "signs" to remind us of Jesus return, coming for final resurrection & judgment. These do not indicate a date.

    WATCH & PRAY!
     
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