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What Is The Meaning Of Matthew 9:13

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by ROSAMARIA FABRIZIO, Jan 7, 2007.

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  1. ROSAMARIA FABRIZIO

    ROSAMARIA FABRIZIO New Member

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    :wavey: PRAISE THE LORD!!!!!!!! :BangHead: NEED HELP ON THE MEANING OF MATTHEW 9:13..,I WOULD APPRECIATE THE HELP....THANK YOU...........:thumbs:
     
    #1 ROSAMARIA FABRIZIO, Jan 7, 2007
  2. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    It's a reference to Hosea 6:6
    For I desire mercy and not sacrifice, and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

    Also, Micah 6:8
    He has shown you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God?

    Hope that helps. :)
     
    #2 Amy.G, Jan 7, 2007
  3. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Hi, Rosamaria....

    Jesus is quotimg an Old Testament passage, Hosea 6:6. He tells the Pharisees to go and find out what it means.

    But before we look at what it means, let's back up to Matthew 9:9. Jesus has just made the call for Matthew, who was busy working at his daily job, to follow him. And Matthew did.

    In verse 10, Jesus and some disciples goes home with Matthew to eat and some of Matthew's friends come over too. But these people aren't very Godly people. They are fellow tax collectors who were unethical and immoral in their jobs and there were other "sinners". Apparently, the company that Matthew kept was a bunch of riff-raff in the eyes of the Pharisees. And possibly they were.

    In verse 11, the Pharisees found out that Jesus was keeping company with unsavory people and eating dinner with them, no less, and they took the opportunity to try and discredit Jesus in the eyes of his disciples by asking them, "Why is this supposedly great moral leader you are following hanging out with all of these low life characters and criminals?"

    In verse 12, Jesus overheard the insult to both him and the people he was eating with and he said, "Healthy people don't need a doctor, only sick people do." He was making an obvious reference to their spiritual needs.

    Now, your verse that you are asking about is the next verse, verse 13. Jesus says to the religious leaders, "I'm here to call sinners to repentance, not the righteous. You need to go and find out what this scripture means.....'I will have mercy and not sacrifice'"

    He is quoting Hosea 6:6. Here is Hosea 6:4-6......."O Ephraim, what shall I do unto thee? O Judah, what shall I do unto thee? for your goodness is a morning cloud, and as the early dew it goeth away. Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I hav slain them by the words of my mouth: and their judgments are as the light that goeth forth. For I have desired mercy and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings."

    God was saying to His people in Hosea and Jesus was saying to the Pharisees in the book of Matthew that it is more important to love God and seek relationship with Him and that in turn makes you a merciful person...(loving, kind, selfless.....) and that going through the empty motions of spiritually impotent religious behavior doesn't automatically make you a child of God.

    Here, Jesus is saying that sacrificing of animals and other religious traditions weren't of any value if the heart isn't right with God and apparently the Pharisees were very good at going through religious appearances, but had no understanding of what God really wanted from them.

    If the Pharisees were in a place of having the right relationship with God, then they would have recognized Jesus for who he was and would have been merciful to those sinners and showed them the love of God instead of being puffed up with pride and thinking themselves above everyone else simply because they were the "head honchos" of the religious community.

    In today's terms, you can give money to the poor, sing in the choir, teach Sunday School, and even preach, but it you have no desire for a daily and intimate relationship with God that far transcends any religious works in your life, then works is all that you have. And Jesus and His Father, God, do not want works to substitute for the relationship.
     
    #3 Scarlett O., Jan 7, 2007
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2007
  4. ROSAMARIA FABRIZIO

    ROSAMARIA FABRIZIO New Member

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    Thank You ..

    :thumbsup: I APPRECIATE YOUR REPLIES... THAT IS MY MAIN PURPOSE TO BE IN THIS FORUM ,,, TO LEARN AND GROW...THANK YOU , AGAIN,,, TO HIM BE ALL THE GLORY!!! ROSAMARIA,,, ..that my heart may sing to you and not be silent, O LORD MY GOD, I will give you thanks forever and ever!!!!!!!!!! psalms 30:12.:jesus:
     
    #4 ROSAMARIA FABRIZIO, Jan 10, 2007
  5. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    First of all we must notice there is an important difference among the translations:

    NIV
    13 But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

    NASB
    "But go and learn what this means: `I DESIRE COMPASSION F175 , AND F176 NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."


    KJV

    But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

    all quotes are from www.Crosswalk.com
     
    #5 Eliyahu, Jan 11, 2007
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2007
  6. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    Seems when repentence is left out something's amiss, huh?

    Every sinner is called, but few be that enter therein, due to a lack of repentence.
     
    #6 Salamander, Jan 11, 2007
  7. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    We must notice this verse is related to and coincides with Matt 18:11

    1. NIV - Mt 18:11
    Nothing ( the entire verse disappeared)

    2. NASB - Mt 18:11
    ["For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.]
    in bracket.

    3. ESV - Mt 18:11
    Nothing ( the entire verse disappeared)

    4. King James Version - Mt 18:11

    For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

    In this case absolute majority ( maybe more than 99%) of the manuscripts support KJV, while only B and א(Aleph) plus a few support Modern Versions.

    All quotations are from Crosswalk.com
     
    #7 Eliyahu, Jan 13, 2007
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2007
  8. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Re Matt 18.11, the NET Bible has this comment:
     
    #8 Marcia, Jan 14, 2007
  9. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    The most important mss (א B L* Θ* Ë1,13 33 892* pc e ff1 sys sa) do not include 18:11 “For the Son of Man came to save the lost.” The verse is included in D Lmg W Θc 078vidÏ lat syc,p,h, but is almost certainly not original, being borrowed, as it were, from the parallel in Luke 19:10.


    This is the typical view of the modern versions.
    They always discredit the Words of God which are included in KJV but excluded in their versions.

    א and B were the main manuscripts used in Modern versions, and they omit the story of the woman caught in the adultery.
    Then why don't they delete the story from their Bible?
    If they don't believe that Mark 16:9-20 is the part of genuine Bible, why don't they delete it out ?

    Among 619 manuscripts only Aleph ( א) and B omit this longer ending of Mark. Are they the most important manuscripts and the rest of the manuscripts ( 617mss) have invented a new story and added it to the Bible?

    The story of the woman caught in adultery is found in 900 manuscripts while 20 manuscripts omit it. If they believe B and Aleph are important and the story was added later on, which means they are not the part of the genuine Bible, then why don't they behave as their conviction?
    Can you trust such people ?
    I don't trust the people who do not behave as they believe, Do you trust such people and their translation?

    Do you know why they included such story in their bible? They did it because they know that their Bible will not be sold if they delete them, IMO. Guess what else will be the reason for that.

    They deleted 'εισ μετανοιαν' (to repentence) in Mt 9:13 because it is not easily noted and the readers can easily overlook the omission. At the end they are cheating the people as much as they can.

    Who can judge that Aleph (א) and B ( Vatican Text) are the most important? Aleph is indeed nothing more than the kindling paper at the monastery as it contains thousands of errors different from Vatican text as well. B was preserved by Roman Catholic which prohibited Bible translation and persecuted the true believers thru Crusade and Inquisition.
    Would you trust them or the true believers who preserved the Words of God despite the persecution by Roman Catholic?
    To me, Aleph and B are nothing more than one of 5,366 manuscripts for New Testament.
     
    #9 Eliyahu, Jan 14, 2007
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2007
  10. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    And so, because a phrase is borrowed from another passage and placed here by well-meaning scribes but not in any of the oldest texts (or in quotations from the early church), English translations based on said Greek should somehow be expected to add it in to THEIR translation?

    I wot not.
     
    #10 Dr. Bob, Jan 17, 2007
  11. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    P66 which is older than Vatican Text and Aleph by more than 150 years disproves the credibility of so-called 'the older the better' Texts ( B & א) in John 7:39.

    For John 7:39, many modern versions describe " the spirit" while KJV describe " Holy Spirit".
    Among 920 manuscripts for Gospel John, 917 state "Holy Spirit" supporting KJV. Only 2 manuscripts ( Aleph and p75) has omitted " Hagion" ( Holy) supporting many modern versions. Even Vatican Text has " Hagion" dedomenon. In fact among 920 mss, 918 agree with KJV while only 2 support modern versions.
    Even p66 which dates back to AD 125-200 has " Hagion". P66 is much earlier than B and Aleph.

    Does the excuse " the older the better" work in this case ?

    Those manuscripts such as Aleph and B omits the story about the woman caught in adultery ( John 8:1-11) and Mark 16:9-20, but the modern versions include the story with the bracket or some notes discrediting the Words of God. If they believe that they are not the part of the genuine Words of God, why don't they delete them in their Bible? Are their bibles the novels or fable books ? Do they publish their Bibles without conviction ? Why don't they behave as they believe?

    The people who argue against KJV must argue against Modern version publishers because they don't behave as they believe.


    Here is the site for John 7:39

    http://www.angelfire.com/la/prophet1/p66.html

    For your better reading, I have re-written it as follows:
    εις εμε καθως ειπεν η Γρφε ποταμι εκ της κοιλιας αυτου ρευσουσιν υδατος ζωντος « 39 τουτο δε ειπε περι του Πνα, ου εμελλον λαμβανειν οι πιστευοντες εις αυτον, ουπω γαρ ην Πνα αγιον οτι Ις ουδεπω εδοξασθη 40 πολλοι εκ του οχλου ουν ακουσαντες αυτου των λογων τουτων ελεγον «Ουτος εστιν αληθως Ο Προφτης 41αλ’λοι ελεγον ουτος εστιν Ο Χς Οι λεε.. γον Μη γαρ εκ της

    Gospel John 7:38-41
    38 (He that believeth) on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) 40 Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet. 41 Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of (Galilee)?

    Aleph, P75 – lacking Αγιον
    B : Αγιον δεδομενον

    Over 900 manuscripts – ΠνευμαΑγιον ( Holy Spirit) as in King James Version.
    Nevertheless, most Modern Versions follow Aleph and P75
     
    #11 Eliyahu, Jan 17, 2007
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2007
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