Featured What is the Minimum amount of theology needed to get saved?

I think this whole thread has been embroiled in a series of different definitions. We're talking past ourselves.

 

Those "subtleties" are very easy to understand when you take time to understand your "theology" first. Doctrine is of prime importance.

Romans 5:1 "Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God.
--Justification comes by faith.

Eph.2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith"
--Salvation is through faith. Remember "sola fide."

And yet the Bible reminds over and over again:
Acts 16:31 "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
--Salvation comes through believing on Christ.

"He that believes on the Son has life; he that believes not the Son of God has not life."
--It all hinges on whether or not you believe (or have faith).
And there are dozens of other such verses that could be quoted.

That is right.
You didn't know everything about God before you were saved,
nor after you were saved,
nor right now,
nor will you know everything about God when you get to heaven.
You will never know everything about God, for God alone is omniscient. It is one of his attributes that man will never attain.
Your point is irrelevant.

However, in order to be saved, an unsaved man must know everything about God that he needs to know in order to be saved.
He needs to know who God is. For example, if he is a Muslim he needs to know that God is not the same as Allah.
Do you realize that a good part of our population nowadays believes that God is generic. He is the same God but called by different names from all religions. If you don't define who God is, to an unsaved person then you are very naive.

Nonsense.
I know of a girl that went through four years of Bible College and then on the day before graduation, she finally trusted Christ. What do you mean "
"they haven't studied God."
How many young people have been raised in Christian homes, attended church at their parents request and have gone astray in the end anyway? They "studied God."
I was raised a Roman Catholic. Though I never heard a good gospel message many of the facts of God were presented to me, and I learned them: trinity, deity, virgin birth, 2nd Coming, bodily resurrection, our resurrection, hell and heaven, etc. I learned about God. I was still unsaved, and never heard the complete gospel truth. But there was much there.
Your statement is as false as false can be.

In salvation the conviction of the Holy Spirit is necessary. However in the command "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ..." it is apparent that the command to believe makes it one's choice whether or not he believes Christ or rejects Christ. God does not force anyone.

 

Pure baloney. A good part of the population does not believe that God is generic. Well over 50% of the American population does not associate the God of the Bible, the one true God that created everything, with Allah. Where did you ever get such an idea? If that figure is the opposite in Canada, then what do people smoke up there?

We are saved through faith, and faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. It is NOT how long you have studied theology, or where you learned it, such as the RCC in your example. It is a matter of how the things you learn affect you as a person. Either the information you are taught is treated like a history course, sometimes called head knowledge, or it is treated like a life changing message from the Lord, sometimes called heart knowledge.

To get from head to heart, yes, it takes the work of the Holy Spirit. No God does not force anyone, but your statement about choice is your opinion, not Scripture.

The statement you quoted is not "false as false can be." Do not say you did not hear the Gospel when being taught in the RCC. That is not true. You chose (as you say) to treat it as head knowledge. The same with the girl at college you cited. Do not blame the RCC for you not being saved at the time. Had you grown up in a Baptist church, you would have been saved at the exact same instant that you were.

 

I did take my post-secondary education in America. I know quite a bit about the public school education. The "religion" of every public educational institution in America is "Humanism." The New Age movement permeates the halls of our colleges. We live in a pluralistic, secular, multi-cultural society. You know very well that there is an attack on the Bible, prayer, Creation, and God in general. The general public of America "hates the God of the Bible" and attacks Christianity daily.

Hence I know your pie-in-the-sky view is wrong. You are not living in reality. Little Johnny can't read. Little Suzy is on drugs. And when they graduate they can't do arithmetic. They are totally unable to give you proper change without a calculator, and other simple tasks. As evidenced on this board by some posters, spelling is atrocious. Wake up.

Everything is relative. There are no absolutes. An absolute religion teaching absolute dogma is a dangerous religion. All religions need to cooperate together in a spirit of unity. Those religions that don't will not be tolerated.

The above is what Humanism teaches and is what is being taught in most public schools.
They don't teach the God of the Bible.
They do teach to believe "the god that is in you," that is the "god" that you need to believe in. That is what Humanism teaches.
Benny Hinn also teaches "We are little gods running around on this earth.
"All roads lead to "god." That is another one of their teachings. It goes along with "unity."
America is not a Christian nation; it is humanistic and secular.

That is a good factual dogmatic statement--dogma; doctrine; theology.

I never said any different. The knowledge of the gospel must be applied by faith. Without knowledge or doctrine it is impossible to be saved. You can't have faith in nothing.

I didn't say:
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved."
Nor did I say:
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
--Those are the exact words of Christ, and he uses the word "believe" 3 times in that one verse. God doesn't force one, but he leaves the choice to the individual to believe or not to believe.
Take your argument up with Christ.

Inasmuch as you just said my testimony is not true, I won't come right out and call you a liar, but what do you think you are doing when I give part of my salvation testimony and you deny my salvation. The fact is: I never once heard the gospel in the Catholic Church until I heard it on the campus of a university via students belonging to an interdenominational organization that works on the campuses of universities. So call me a liar if you wish, but you know it is against the rules to do that, and to question my salvation at the same time.
It is a foolish thing for you to do.

It is apples and oranges.
Those who grow up in Baptist churches hear the gospel and reject the truth. They will give account for that.
I grew up in the Catholic Church and never heard the gospel. Don't call me a liar. The gospel is not preached in the RCC.

 

I generally agree. It is enough to know that I am a great sinner and Christ is a great Saviour and that He is accessed by grace though faith.

 

.................................

 

Thank you. :thumbsup:

 

Brother Webdog, you can read in Luke 13:3 and 13:5 that Jesus said, "Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." Then in 2 Cor 7:10 it states a Godly sorrow works a repentance not to be repented of. Now, I see both faith and repentance as gifts from God, seeing that not all men have faith(2 Thess. 3:2). And God commanded the Israelites to keep the Law, knowing full well they couldn't, and condemning them for it.

So as for the reprobate, we were all sinners at one point in time, with no desire to come to God for salvation outside the workings of the Spirit. We were in a fallen state, without the ability to come to God of our own accord(I know you believe this way, too). Only through the workings of the Spirit can we approach the Throne of Grace. Not everyone has this desire, and I see it that God didn't choose them, whereas, you see it that they don't want to come of their own choosing. So, we are at an impasse, and I'll leave it there. I have too much respect for you guys to get in a "tussle" with you all, because feelings will get hurt, and neither side will relent.

 

Well said!! Very good post. Encore!! Encore!! I will petition the "higher ups" and see it they will put you in as the Baptistboard's poet laureate......

 

But, Willis, there is no getting around the fact He actively causes the reprobate to NOT repent while commanding them TO repent. How can you just brush that huge facet of this doctrine under the rug? Its HUGE! Not wanting to fight, just don't understand how one goes from a logical doctrine that rightly divides both man and God to an illogical one where God is the active cause in everything, including sin and reprobation. If I had a cure for your disease and actively kept you from getting it...while telling you to just take it to be cured, I would be on the news as a mentally challenged monster!

 

How much theology did the Ethiopian eunuch need to get saved?

 

Or the Philppian jailer, or the people at Pentecost, or Lydia, etc etc etc

 

webdog

What verses are you thinking of when you make this statement?

The fact that Jesus wept of Jerusalem does not indicate they wanted to come,and he actively did not let them.

Jesus in Jn 8.....and In Jn 10...and in Jn12...indicated that the goats did not want God's word.He was offering them life as lovingly as anyone ever did.

Where do you see that they wanted to come and Jesus...'actively" worked to stop them?

You call it a fact....where is it?
In Pharoah's case scripture explains exactly what took place....so show these other places where this activity was going on.

Teaching on reprobation is in scripture.It is not explained as you and others do however.

No christian teaches God causes sin...That is an evil idea.

Maybe you need to re-evalute your position then...it is not biblically supportable,and not taught by any biblical cal. it is possible you have missed the teaching....not really understanding it.In truth...you have.:wavey:

 

If you're hyper-Calvinist, you could see it that way. But it ignores the fact that while God is sovereign, man is still responsible, meaning the reprobate who does not repent has done so on his own, not because God "made" him for destruction. That's ludicrous.

 

yes tnd
This is a good distinction that you call attention to,as it portrays the case in a more biblical light:thumbsup:

 

No, the logical conclusion of Calvinism, period. To state salvation is all God and reprobation is all man is illogical at best, intellectually dishonest at worst. Impossible for both to be true.

 

The same one that says man is utterly and completely passive in salvation.

No kidding, never said or hinted at that.

Per my previous response, you just created a fallacy scenario.

irrelevant to my point.

The opposite side of the determinism coin is definitely evil. Just because you never flip it over doesn't mean its not there.

I'm not the determinist. Indeed determinism is not supported in Scripture.

 

Not at all. Perhaps from a human perspective, which cannot see the truth of both, but God isn't human. Spurgeon accepted that both are true.

http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0207.htm​

Just excerpts, but excellent ones. Spurgeon gives the lie to the concept that man has no free will, but proves that God is still completely sovereign. Live with it. It is biblical truth.