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what is, the prayer of salvation, exactly?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Darren, Apr 12, 2008.

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  1. HisWordIsTruth

    HisWordIsTruth New Member

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    DHK you need to go back to the beginning of the conversation and read up until the last post that you quoted from and that should clear up your confusion.

    I have CLEARLY been advocating that everlasting life is received the very moment we "believe on the Lord Jesus". That is very clear if you will read all my posts and not pick and choose what you quote and respond to. You can even check out the section below the general section and there is a thread that I have been posting on there declaring the same thing.

    What you have done is picked up a conversation in the middle and taken my comments out of context.

    The quote that you quoted of mine:And then Paul makes a statement requiring a confession for salvation.

    If these two statements are speaking of the same topic Paul has contradicted himself. We know that is an impossibility.

    This was a statement comparing what Paul (they) said in Acts 16:30-31 and what he said in Eph. 2:8-9 with what he said in Romans.

    Now here is the actual context of my statement so as to clear up any confusion. In Acts and Eph. Paul makes the statement that believe/faith result in savlation. That is the ONLY thing he points to which results in salvation.

    Then in Romans he said confession of Jesus as the Christ leads to salvation.

    Now if the statements in Acts and Eph. are speaking of the same thing as Romans then we have a clear contradiction of Scripture. You can't have believe only speaking about the same result as confession. That's not possible. Therefore Romans has to be speaking of something else.

    Right?
     
  2. Steven2006

    Steven2006 New Member

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    What is it speaking of?
     
  3. standingfirminChrist

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    Wrong.

    Paul said confession is made with the mouth unto Salvation.

    Jesus said if we deny Him before men, He will deny us before the Father.

    Let's put it this way...

    I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. I believe He was born of the virgin Mary, was crucified for my sins, buried, and rose again according to the Scriptures. Now, according to many, I am saved because of that belief. And that is what Paul says in Ephesians 2.

    But...
    If I never tell anyone of my conversion, never tell anyone about Christ, am I truly saved?

    James said faith without works is dead, being alone. And Jesus said He will deny the one who denies Him. So confession is a necessity in the life of a believer.

    Jesus also taught repentance with belief... as I have shown.
     
  4. HisWordIsTruth

    HisWordIsTruth New Member

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    YES. YES. YES. Why? Because that is EXACTLY what Paul says in "two" different places.
     
  5. standingfirminChrist

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    And yet that flies in the face of all the Scriptures that state confession is necessary.
     
  6. HisWordIsTruth

    HisWordIsTruth New Member

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    Nowhere are we given an example that one must believe in "resurrection" in order to be saved unto everlasting life.

    The disciples didn't even believe it until after it happened. Are you going to then argue that the "disciples" were not saved until after the fact? Going to be a hard point to argue I think.

    It is death and shed blood in a substitutionary fashion that is required. And that is the ONLY thing that is required.
     
  7. HisWordIsTruth

    HisWordIsTruth New Member

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    EXACTLY!!! That's been my WHOLE POINT all along. That means these two ideas are NOT compatible. They CAN NOT be speaking of the same thing. It's a Ford and a Carnival Cruise Liner. They both deal with transportation, but one is on water and one is on the land. You can't launch a car into the sea or you drown and you can't drive a boat on the ground, as momentum will only carry you so far and then you are stuck.
     
  8. Steven2006

    Steven2006 New Member

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    What is it speaking of?
     
  9. standingfirminChrist

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    What then is Paul speaking of when he says confession is made unto Salvation?
     
  10. HisWordIsTruth

    HisWordIsTruth New Member

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    Does this mean we are in agreement that they aren't speaking of the same thing?
     
  11. HisWordIsTruth

    HisWordIsTruth New Member

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    Stephen you seem to be following the conversation so let me ask you the same question. Are you in agreement that they aren't speaking of the same thing?
     
  12. standingfirminChrist

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    You are evading again, HWIT.
     
  13. standingfirminChrist

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    Actually 1 Corinthians 15 may refute that statement. It states that if we do not believe in the resurrection of Christ from the dead, our faith is in vain.

    That would tell me that just to believe Christ is Lord is not enough to merit Salvation.

    There are many false christs out there, but only one Christ who rose from the dead.
     
  14. Steven2006

    Steven2006 New Member

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    No, I don't agree, and that is why I am trying to understand what you are trying to say. Why beat around the bush, can you please give me a clear and honest answer? What do you believe it means, so that I can understand what you are talking about? You are the one who says it is something different please explain, if you can't I can assume you don't really have a point.
     
  15. standingfirminChrist

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    It is obvious Jesus Christ taught the same confession Paul taught that was instrumental in Salvation.
     
  16. HisWordIsTruth

    HisWordIsTruth New Member

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    This will serve to answer Stephen's question as well. If we are not in agreement that they aren't speaking of the same subject then it is pointless to continue to go forward.

    What you must do now is explain how they can be speaking of the same thing, when you (standingfirm) just said that believe and believe alone flies in the face of the rest of Scripture.

    By your very own words you say they are not compatible. Believe and believe alone with is CLEARLY what is said in Acts 16:30-31 and Eph. 2:8-9 is not compatible with other Scripture that says we must repent and confess and be baptized, etc. etc. (whatever else might be added to the equation).

    We can't proceed in any kind of meaningful conversation if we aren't in agreement.

    So my question to use is please explain how these things "are" talking about the same thing when you said it flies in the face of Scripture.

    Stephen let me address this a little further and please I don't mean any disrespect to you at all, but if you don't agree with me to this point why do you care what else I have to say or why would you even want to understand it?
     
  17. HisWordIsTruth

    HisWordIsTruth New Member

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    Absolutely agree standingfirm. Just more proof these two subjects can't be the same in my book.
     
  18. Steven2006

    Steven2006 New Member

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    I don't agree, but how can you reasonably expect me to unless you are willing to explain what it is you believe? Why is it a secret, I don't understand why you can't tell me what you mean, so as I can better try and understand? How can you possibly say why even further discuss it if you are unwilling to state what you believe? How is that reasonable on your part? In all seriously how can we discuss something without actually discussing it? Your position is not logical.
     
  19. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    PLease describe just what the two subjects you are refering to are so that everyone else besides you can know what you are talking about.
     
  20. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    It's like saying "well, if you don't know, I'm not gonna tell you". :laugh:
     
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