What is the Purpose of the Local Church

Obviously, you were going to the wrong SBC churches. People don't get it through their heads that SBC churches are autonomous and select their own pastors. If the church allows such to go on, it will. That is one reason I like our church so much and it is SBC and I don't WANT to be Free at last, I would rather be a "bondservant of Jesus Christ".

 

for the equipping of the saints for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.
Eph. 4:12&13
Long ago I was taught that this is what the church is for and I still believe it.
Dr. Bob has it exactly right.

 

I would contend that the Church is comprised of the body of believers called saints but that non-believrs will be present in a church that is doing the work of ministry. The work of the church is to equip the saints for the task God has given them.

Read the NT and you will notice many times the way things are addressed that believers (mature and immature) will take it some diferent ways and non-believers another. The scripture affirms the obedient Christian and speaks to the disobedient Christian that they must be obedient.

Just look at how Jesus spoke. He often spoke in parables.

In Hebrews it is not so much to decide are those people Christians or not but rather for them to get off the fence and onto business with God. I think we see that in the church today. We have those who call themselves Christians whom do not have fruit that demonstrates that. Then there are others who are sold out for Jesus and others who are not even believers.

The church must have one mission and that is to make disciples. Not converts but disciples. Not baby immature Christians but mature believers who can disciple others. Evangelism is not a part of church work it is the first step in making disciples.

 

Is it the purpose of the local Church to keep the lost out? Dr. Bob? Helen? Scripture please.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Phillip questioned:

What I don't understand is why Spirit and Truth keeps bringing up "The Passion" as an issue to grade churches by.

S&T:

I say this because if I call a church that I may be considering sending someone to, and they tell me that they believe that the Passion movie is something that all should see, saved or unsaved, I will tell people to avoid going there because of the obvious lack of discernmant by the leadership. As far as the "healing" comment. Many people, who were professing to be born again Christians, have made the statement that this movie "changed their life". Some have said that they were backslidden, but this movie called them back to faith. That statement represents the "healing" power of the movie, and many pastors have directed their whole congregations to attend for those reasons. It speaks loudly about the pastors ability to instruct and edify his congregants. From such churches, I personally would flee.

 

free at last: you are so correct.

Charles Finney and Spurgeon and many others have explained how these silly "salvation only, no maturing instruction" churches persist in avoiding subjects on spiritual growth.

Pew Potatoes hate to witness, hate to deny the self, hate to work, hate to change, hate to leave comfort zones, hate to tithe or "cheerfully give", hate to self-examine, etc.

Joseph Bot: many verses say the BELIEVERS came together to pray, have communion, etc.

The church epistles are addressed to those who are saved.

Bible tells us to have no fellowship with darkness or unbelievers.

Two cannot walk together unless they be agreed.

We witness and teach, but if someone mocks, persists in sin, which can influence others, this is not to be tolerated.

The door to hell is in the unbeliever's heart, it's not a door in the church building.

We are to assemble together with other believers, not unbelievers. Sorry mega-church fans and seeker-sensitives.

Daniel David: I'm a big fan of Charles Finney and have learned a lot about spurious conversions, how people fake being genuine Christians, how saying a little Jesus prayer is not the same as gut-wrenching repentance and godly sorrow for sin.

What is so "deceptive" about Finney? I know of only one doctrinal issue that puzzles me about him, which isn't too bad compared to someone like Spurgeon the rabid Catholic disliker, or Calvin the rabid non-Calvinist disliker.

 

Would you please show me in the Bible where it specifically says not to allow non-Christians to attend Church and hear the Word of God preached? Chapter and verse? If you cannot show me this, then your argument is not Biblical and deserves no amount of merit.

Joseph Botwinick

 

So I guess you never invited a non-believer to church nor took your own children to church until they were born again?

 

So much for leaving the newbies/unsaved out

Acts 2
42 ¶ And they were continuing steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine, and in fellowship and in the breaking of the loaves, and in prayers.
43 And fear came on every soul. And many wonders and miracles took place through the apostles.
44 And all who believed were together and had all things common.
45 And they sold their possessions and goods and distributed them to all, according as anyone had need.
46 And continuing with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they shared food with gladness and simplicity of heart,
47 *** praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.***

 

Silence is all I hear from Dr. Bob....... so far........

 

gb and Joe Bot:

Sure take unsaved to church.

But why didn't you lead them to salvation prior to taking them to church?

I mean, pew potatoes expect "church" or the pastor to lead unsaved to Christ.

Why take unsaved to church, if they don't accept the gospel when you speak it to them?

Can people get saved by going to church? No.

Only by accepting Christ, in or out of church.

Church cannot save anyone. Only Christ does that.

Problem with seeker sensitive mega churches is perhaps lots of unsaved join the ranks and then influence unfavorably the church.

The "church" ekklesia is the assembly of born again believers. No mix of saved and unsaved.

But the "church institution/building" may have saved and unsaved in it.

See the difference?

 

Vasper,

I agree with you here. However, you do agree that there is nothing in the Bible that explicitly forbids lost sinners from attending Church to hear the Preaching of the Word of God, correct? Dr. Bob, do you agree? Helen?

Joseph Botwinick

 

You are absolutely correct Joseph Bot and you persist in presenting very important point.

We also must remember that if a First Century believer stepped into one of today's churches, he or she would most likely feel lost, alienated, and confused to an extreme:

"Pews? What are they for? Pulpit? What's that? When do testimonials begin? What? You don't have a testimonial time? Altar call? What for? You mean no one led them to salvation prior to bringing them to church? Sermon? What's that? We all have something to say when we meet. Whose home is this? It's not a home? What is it then? A church building? What's that? Like a temple? Who are those people up there? Choir? We all singin my church. Do they sing in the spirit or in the understanding? What's that? A what? A Bible? Lots of copies? Our church just has a few copies of letters and one copy of old testament. You mean you forget what oral teaching you receive and have to read it in writing? Weird. What? No healing, no anointing with oil and prayer for sick? Why not? James said to do it. What? No tongues with interpretation? Let me speak to your Apostle or Prophet. What? You don't have any? Those functions passed away 2000 years ago? Where exactly am I? This is a fellowship of Jesus followers? When do you visit the sick and the prisoners? The what team does that on Tuesday nights? What do the rest of the believers do then? Enjoy their private family life? What about the family of God? Where are your widows rolls and orphanages? Not local? What? Let me out of here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

What we call church and church service bears little resemblance to what Acts reports and I Corinthians 11 to 14. Very very different. Alas.

 

I am a missionary Baptist, but I wish to add my agreement to pinyobaptist's post.

I would never restrict any from entering into the church building to hear what is preached and taught, and I don't think I could Biblically give them an amount of time to which they must convert or discontinue their coming. IMHO, the very fact they are or do continue to come to hear these things taught is expression enough of something drawing them for some purpose.

It is also not my place to provide them an altar call. There is one altar and it is built without hands and there is one who is sent to provide a visitation of those who are called to that altar.

The local church is not a country club and not a place where sin is to be justified by any other than the shed blood of Christ through the Grace of God.

Bro. Dallas Eaton

 

Okay Frogman the sign from God has come through you.

My wife has been bugging me to post her theory about churches, and she is a good little Baptist churchgoer, same as her daddy and his dad.

She says that many churches are "poor people's country clubs" where people go to gossip, participate in VBS and mission trips, etc. just to have some home away from home experience to add zest and interest to their otherwise empty lives. I think that's her meaning here.

Anyway, I heard Rick Warren say many churches are "family reunion" churches who have emphasized "fellowship and worship" but to the detriment of other purposes.

I stirred up enough controversy with anti-Passion posts and the Quarantined Church concept, so I've been stalling about bringing up this aspect.

Then you had to go and say "country club."

Altar calls? If there is more AltEr than AltAr, it's not so bad. Alter their hearts, get it?

 

Good post vaspers, I do get your use of language. I believe the heart is altered prior to an individual recieving the altar call from the Spirit.

I believe otherwise this person cannot repent.

Do you folks believe that a person continuing in secret sin, although a professing Christian is probably really an Atheist?

Do you know who said they were?

Bro. Dallas

 

Dr. Bob? Helen? Any thoughts?

Joseph Botwinick

 

bump

 

That's a bit harsh, continue in secret sin, probably an atheist.

It's easy for someone to believe in God, like the devil does, yet not honor Him.

Atheism has nothing to do with sin. Some atheists are much less sinful as far as habits and stuff, than many churchgoers.

Atheism is a sin, I know, but to sin does not mean unbelief. I can be an anarchist, but know there truly is a government. I just choose to not obey it, not quit believing in its real existence.

There you go.

 

You know JBot I think the reason this thread was started was to divert you from the other one. Dr Bob has gotten you side tracked here and has abandoned his return to this place. Same goes for helen. You keep talking to people who are no longer here. They haven't responded because they don't read here. Don't hold your breath..... lol...