Featured what is wrong holding to jesus died for all, but God only gives faith to some?

DHK

I will stand by what I posted....you are consistent , but consistently wrong.We can not agree on this. the reader can now search it out ...and give account of themselves to God.

This is not a TRUTHFUL STATEMENT AND THIS I WILL NOT LET STAND..

I HAVE TOLD YOU 2-3 TIMES NOW-

All men, even those elected by God are conceived in sin and dead in Adam.

At a point in time God gives the gift of salvation and all its parts to an unsaved person, making him a saved sinner.....

After the unsaved person is quickened and Indwelt by the Spirit of God...then and THEN only do Spiritual gifts manifest itself...Stop twisting what I posted DHK....you cannot make a point without doing this???? Please stop twisting ...just post what you want...not what you think ,or speculate, or invent that I post,

 

DHK,
First of all, I want to say that the exchange of posts the other day, which I am half responsible for, was unfortunate, and want to move past it. From my deepest heart, I was not trying to question your honesty or salvation. My wording may have been poor, and I never claimed to be an English scholar, but calling you a liar and implying you are unsaved were not my motives. It is time to move on.

Second, I do have another faith question for you. You stated that you believe that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God concept, that some hear all their lives and reject it. Yes, that is possible for those who hold to Calvinism and non Calvinists. The Calvinist would say he heard the Word, but rejected it because he was not elect. The non Calvinist would say basically what you already have, that they have a depraved heart and are wicked. So my question is, if someone never heard the Word of God, is it possible for them to be saved?

 

These verses and your synopsis completely disprove everything you have said regarding knowledge ("theology") being necessary for salvation, as stated on the other thread, do you realize that?

 

The proper Calvinist answer to that would be:
If he is one of the elect God would find a way for him to hear the gospel and be saved. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Salvation comes through the gospel, the Word of God. Without the knowledge of the gospel, the Word of God, one cannot be saved.

The non-Cal answer is similar. If someone in heathen Africa were seeking God, (example Cornelius), God would send to him a missionary so that he could be saved. As a missionary I have heard many such testimonies from people that had been praying that "God, if there is a God, show me the truth." They were sincerely seeking the truth, and God answered their prayers.

Remember that William Carey was a Calvinist. In the hyper-Calvinist environment in which he lived missions was opposed. But God gave him a heart for missions. Missions did not go against the theology of Carey.

 

No it doesn't. A proper exegesis of Eph.2:8,9 gives:
1. A definition of grace--It is Christ's work on the Cross and it comes from God. Thus atonement, who God is, and who Christ is must be understood.
2. A definition of faith must be understood, and the fact that it is salvation that must be received as a gift of God (Romans 6:23).
3. Soteriology. Salvation is all of God; one cannot merit it. It is "not of works." It is not "of oneself."

There is a lot of "theology" in those two verses. How does that disprove anything that I have previously said. Doctrine is taught.

 

Faith is not a gift of God. It is not given to an unregenerate person. I stand by what I say. Since regeneration and salvation take place simultaneous your position is just a matter of semantics, and God still is giving faith the wicked and evil unsaved person--a preposterous position. The dog goes back to his vomit and receives the spiritual gift of Faith from the heavenly Father whom he does not even know. That is your position. Ridiculous!

 

No problem;

So here, Sproul teaches that an infant can be regenerated for years before they actually place faith in Jesus and are saved. This would be a person spiritually alive (regenerated) and spiritually dead in sins at the same time, an impossibility.

Source- http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/reformed/regenera.htm

But don't take this article's word for it, simply Google "infant regeneration" and R.C. Sproul. You will find numerous articles, many by Calvinists.

This quote is actually speaking of R.C. Sproul, Jr., not Sr. but I included it just to show that many Calvinists believe you can be regenerated before faith.

http://calvinistflyswatter.blogspot.com/2006/04/rc-sproul-jr-has-been-defrocked.html

I don't need to make things up to refute Calvinism, the truth will do quite nicely.

No two Calvinists believe the same thing. Some are 5 pointers, some are 4. Some are "moderate", some are "hypers". So no matter what a non-Cal says about Calvinism, Calvinists can conveniently claim they were misrepresented, because no two Calvinists believe quite the same.

What do you want me to say? I believe Calvinism is false doctrine and very serious error.

And some disagree. If I am not mistaken you are not a dispensationalist, I believe John MacArthur is. So many Calvinists who have been Calvinists all their lives do not agree.

It is not biblical, Cornelius was not saved, neither did he have the indwelling Holy Spirit, yet he believed in God, prayed always, and did many righteous works that God "accepted". He could not have been regenerated according to Romans 8:9, according to this verse, a man without the indwelling Spirit is "in the flesh". Yet he was able to believe and sincerely seek God.

My willful ignorance? Now that is a real laugh coming from you. :laugh:

 

Well, that article said John Piper also believes in infant regeneration, what is he?

Faith MUST precede regeneration. Regeneration by definition means to be made alive again, and no person can be spiritually alive while they remain in their sins. Only if a person is forgiven their sins can they be regenerated or quickened.

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Colossians 2:13 makes it very clear that we were dead in our sins, but were quickened or regenerated by God. And how did God do that? By forgiving us all our trespasses.

Yes, the moment you believe you are forgiven and made alive, but faith must precede regeneration. It is impossible to be spiritually alive while you remain dead in sins.

 

OP - what is wrong holding to jesus died for all, but God only gives faith to some?

First that is a fact to be believed. Died
1 Cor. 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

You are right about one thing Christ was not a sinner but never the less Christ died. He died for our sins. He was dead to the death of, in dying thou dost die. Gen 2:17.

Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood. Rev 1:5
And if Christ be not raised, your faith vain; ye are yet in your sins. 1 Cor. 15:17

What made it possible for the blood of Christ to wash away our sins? Life from the dead. Regeneration.

heirs of God, Rom 8:17 Heirs of the God of the promise
How? but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father Romans 8:15
How? he (God) hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. Acts 2:33
What preceded this shedding forth? and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, Acts 2:33
What preceded this? This Jesus hath God raised up, (from the dead) whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, (with glory) Acts 2:32,33

Heirs of the promise of God: That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:7
What preceded this setting apart as heirs? Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; Titus 3:6
What preceded this? and renewing of Holy Spirit; Titus 3:6
What preceded this? through washing of regeneration, Titus 3:6

And if Christ be not raised, your faith vain; ye are yet in your sins. 1 Cor 15:17

raised, made alive from death.

Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. Romans 6:9 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, Acts 13:34

Was Jesus the Christ raised from the dead with a different kind of life than he had before he died?

For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth John 5:21 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; John 5:26

Do those two verses look a lot like Romans 6:9?

 

The hope of eternal life.

That hope is only needed in someone that does not have life in himself.

When one who does not have life in himself suffers death and is then given to have life in himself. That one becomes the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen. Faith.

Grace is when, one who has life in himself, gives to one who does not have life in himself and is without sin yet sees death for the sin of others, to have life in himself.

That is how we are saved by grace through the faith.

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23 Faith/faithfulness of God to his promise made before the times ages.

 

The only way the faith that saves us has anything to do with us is that we received the Spirit by the hearing of the faith that saved us.

I'm going to think on that a while.

If I go not away the Comforter will not come unto you.

 

Are you freakin' kidding me??? You did NOT really say that, did you? For the luvva ... I'm absolutely speechless. Good thing I'm not using Dragon.

Ephesians 2, NASB
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; ​

"Faith" is the noun subject here, not "grace," further evidenced by the fact that "faith" is the only feminine noun in the sentence, and the verb "saved" is a neuter, meaning in modifies the feminine noun -- "faith." Faith is the gift, not grace.

Your comment is completely inexcusable, as it directly challenges the word of God and denies it.

 

If you believe Calvinism, then you hold many false doctrines.

What do you mean when you say "means"?

 

You are wrong. "That" in the greek refers back to the entire phrase 'by grace are you saved through faith', not just faith. Salvation is the gift being mentioned, not faith. DHK is correct.

 

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

All throughout Scripture it is salvation or eternal life that is held out to the unbeliever as the free gift of God. That is what he offers, and that is what is to be accepted, as a small child by faith. Salvation is a gift of God. That is taught here in Romans, in the Gospel of John, in the Book of Acts and throughout the First Epistle of John, as well as many other parts of the Bible. Salvation is the free gift of God.
To alter the plain teaching of Scripture simply because of you are a follower of Calvin, is a dangerous precedent. You don't have any other Scripture. This is one verse pulled out of context. As I have indicated every part and parcel of this verse refers back to the subject "You are saved." That is the only way it makes sense. It is not "faith," but "salvation" that is the free gift of God.