What Is Wrong With Bob Jones?

==It would get them more students and it would help their alumni. For example I would never attend since I need accredited degrees (I am not considering it just an example). Many other people like me need accredited degrees. Why? There are some fields you must have an accredited degree to enter into. While Bob Jones has programs/degrees in those fields it does not help the students since they are not accredited. </font>[/QUOTE]What are these fields?

==Personally I think that excuse is just the easy way out for them (or for any other school). The responsible thing to do is to seek and gain offical accreditation. A school does not have to compromise anything to do that. Look at the great schools that are accredited: Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Liberty Theological Seminary, Southern Evangelical Seminary, and Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, etc, etc, etc.
</font>[/QUOTE]There are real questions of philosophy and control. I don’t think BJU could have been accredited with SACS when they had their racially restrictive dating policies. I don’t know about TRACS.

Accreditation, especially by regional accreditors, does impact many management and policy matters. This may not be apparent to one on the outside. Hiring and firing are processes under scrutiny of the accreditor. My cousin works in a GA institution that was put on probation over an employment matter. They simply failed to follow the proscribed bureaucratic due process. With Fundamentalist religious schools, this is a crucial matter. You can bet a secular accrediting agency will not support firing over doctrinal matters. Remember SEMEX? BJU, I think, is hoping that TRACS will be more sympathetic to employment issues relating to doctrinal matters.

Several reasons including the preceding one. They are getting more competition from accredited Christian colleges (e.g. Clearwater, MBBC, etc.) The climate is changing at BJU and it fits well with the new administration. Finally, they are more comfortable with TRACS than SACS but TRACS has not always been highly credible. It has improved.

==So? A person can earn an unaccredited undergrad degree and still get into graduate school and get a good job. Nothing unusual there. I am mainly refering to their graduate programs. </font>[/QUOTE]Graduate programs are widely accepted too. Their fine arts graduates are highly desired.

==See above.

==Many schools/universities will not accept unaccredited transfer credits since there is no "stamp of approval" on the course (so to speak). Also many Universities (etc) will not hire people with degrees from unaccredited schools (no matter how good the school). You may think it is silly, and it maybe, however it is the reality and BJU should have prepared themselves (and their students) for that reality. By not being accredited BJU has cheated its students. </font>[/QUOTE]All students knew BJU was unaccredited prior to going there. Caveat emptor Furthermore, accreditation does not necessarily mean that credits will be accepted between institutions. Hiring and acceptance are highly individual processes. Companies don’t hire from some accredited schools too. More often, it is the individual, not the school, that is at fault.

 

John,

There are a lot of Christian colleges with pre-med and pre-law (and they are RA). I would be happy to name a few if you are interested. God bless.

 

Hi, Brice.

Yeah, I'd be interested in knowing, just out of curiosity.

Anyone know other Christian colleges with degrees in stage or cinematology?

I just looked at the BJU website, and counted 123 majors--http://www.bju.edu/academics/umajors.html. Would you believe they even have one in restaurant management? Oh yes, and one in Bible.

 

Maranatha used to have a nursing course, not sure if they still do. They do still have a special education minor, and I know they also have at least a minor in drama, perhaps they've upgraded it to a major by now.

They also offer various music majors.

 

John,

On second thought I am going to ask for a clarification. Are you looking for Christian colleges or Baptist colleges? If you are looking for Baptist or Non-Denom, but fairly Baptist, I would look at colleges such as Liberty, Clearwater Christian, Bryan College, Mercer, Baylor, Houston Baptist and many others (If you would like more please ask and I would be more then happy to help). In regards to pre-med this is usually accomplished with an emphasis in Biology. God bless.

 

Thanks, Brice. This is enough to satisfy my curiosity.

God bless.

 

I think in recent years the "fort" mentality has been lessened to a great degree. BJU and its students are very active in the community for the last 20 years or so. In the mid-80s, they made strong efforts to have a better community influence through projects and service. The students are, for the most part, well respected in the community.

 

I have never seen that snobbery or arrogance towards people with degrees from other places, or towards people in general.

Years ago, when many of htese Bible colleges were started, they were hiring BJU grads because that is all there was with fundamental Christian educations. Today, the number of schools has greatly increased an enlarged the pool for hiring teachers.

 

When someone is inside the academic world snobbery is more noticeable. It is especially prevalent among those who take pride in going to an "elite" school.

There are also times when those who are not as skilled as others point the finger and call confidence arrogance when it may not be. I saw that happen toward a man I studied under who has his work on discplay in the Smithsonian. It was always the ignorant who were full of critical remarks. They were never even close in their own skills compared to the person they were critical of. In contrast, it was the highly skilled who admired his attitude and work.

 

Both are true, GB. But I have never noticed that with people from BJU.

 

I grew up in Greenville, so I've seen a lot of the school up close. If I only knew BJU by what I've read in online forums, I doubt I would have given it any thought. From what I know of the men, Bob Jones III brought a major change to the tone of the University compared to his father. He made the front of campus more inviting, added cultural outreaches, invited groups like Special Olympics to hold their events on campus, and continued the long-standing evangelistic and mercy ministries in the community (what they call extensions).

Although the local newspaper dislikes that BJU keeps a damper on the party life of Greenville, most locals are favorable toward the University. In the last few years even Furman University has offered several art appreciation classes designed to give "a great background for understanding the exhibitions in the Bob Jones University Religious Museum."

I chose to attend BJU because I saw the softer, gentler touch of the school. Most of the pastors and other individuals that taught me to appreciate the gospel had been trained there. I was impressed by its academics and fine arts, and don't regret my decision. (FWIW In my study of colleges, I have seen the benefit that even a measely 80 or so years of history can have on the educational quality of an institution. It's hard to attract top-flight professors to a start-up with a small budget.)

The thing that impressed me the most about BJU was the faculty. Even now, I'm astounded at the quality and Christlikeness of their teachers. As I sat in accounting or counseling classes I found myself praying that some of the grace they displayed would be reflected in me. I remember teachers, who weren't paid that much themselves, generously giving me and other students money when they found out we were going on mission teams. Another teacher invited me to her family's house during the busiest time of the year for her to explain an assignment I was struggling with. I could go on, but my point is that as a student I didn't see a hint of the snobbery that I sense with an institution like Wheaton.

I understand Rhetorician's sentiments exactly. I think that even over the last five years BJU has made large strides forward in some of the areas that have been the most troublesome to many of us. Yet, I also think that the quality of the graduates I meet is impressive. Certainly a school of its size turns out duds, but on the whole they seem to have to have done quite well. I am a little worried about this fellow who's married into Dr. Bob's family, though.

 

Having finished personal testimony time, sung a few praise choruses, and thrown my stick in the fire, I want to make a couple of more substantive points as well.

First, I try to do Christian institutions the courtesy of looking at the context in which they make their decisions (particularly mistakes). BJU was founded as reaction against schools that accommodated secularism to the point that they were no longer Christian. Thus, they were always very wary of change--a good thing in general, but a really bad thing when you get an issue wrong. Add to this cultural blindspots and the hardening effect of legitimate gospel conflicts and it is understandable that BJU developed something of an us-against-the-world mindset. As mentioned above, this seems to be changing thankfully.

The question of accreditation is linked to this mentality, but in reality the university's decision to pursue accreditation has as much to do with other considerations. With the rise of the internet there has been a proliferation of diploma mills. Academic credibility has become a hot issue.

In the smaller educational pond before the internet, even top schools like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, etc. knew of BJU and accepted its graduates. Now many institutions are a looking at adopting more concrete standards for acceptance into their programs so that they don't have to research every diploma mill that comes down the pike. BJU hasn't said as much, but the changes in higher education have to have played a part. Of course it didn't hurt that NBBC applied for accreditation first.

As to the alleged lies that BJU spread about Marantha BBC's accreditation. I never heard the stories you mentioned, but in the interest of honest reporting--Do I remember that MBBC had to change the composition of its board to include women to assuage the accreditation committee? Or is this a mistaken memory?

I have a friend who teaches at a local college. A year or two ago he was on a plane with Bob Jones III and the president of another accredited fundamentalist college. We didn't know it at the time, but BJU was close to announcing that it was pursuing accreditation. The president of the other college spent a portion of the flight telling BJ3 about the ills of accreditation and how he regretted going down that road--comments that aren't consistent with what he had said elsewhere. He specifically mentioned problems with regional accreditation. When I heard this story I was frustrated because I thought it further hurt the chance of BJU seeking accreditation. (Looking back, I wonder if the other president saw that his school's distinctive was being threatened.) At any rate, if that sort of thing happens often I can understand why BJ3 might have had some wrong notions about regional accreditation.

Dr. Bob, you said that Maranatha was evaluated by peer Bible colleges. Isn't MBBC accredited with the North Central Association? Are you say that North Central only sends Bible colleges to evaluate MBBC, even though North Central is a secular organization? I had never heard this before.

 

I would not agree with that having been at MBBC during their accreditation candidacy. They did have to prove they were fulfilling their stated goals, nothing wrong with that. They did have to make significant improvements to their already strong academic programs in order to meet the qualifications, it was not an unearned distinction. BJU would have no problem obtaining accreditation, their reasons for not doing so really are not all that strong. At such point as the North Central Association were to make any demands that MBBC determined were in opposition to their mission as a Bible college, they could and would be free to drop their status.

North Central is made up of both Secular and Bible Colleges and Universities. The boards evaluating them consisted of faculty from both I believe. They were not evaluating MBBC's goals and mission primarily, but asking for proof they were being met, and giving MBBC academic watermarks that are common to many Bible and Secular colleges. One simple example is the educational qualifications of the faculty. While previously, they might have desired to have faculty with a Masters in their field at least, it is now manditory in order to maintain their status. Just one example, but nothing that would hinder MBBC's goals to be a Bible college that is teaching the Word, and has a highly respected academic program, proven by the rigorous evaluation of the NCA. The process involved not so much what you can or must offer, but that what you do offer, you deliver.