What! No Church?

The word means assembly.
It's derivation comes from two words "ek" and "kalew" which means "out" and "to call" or "to call out." In effect it means a called out assembly. The lexicon you are using are giving some meanings that are commonly used in a more contemporary way, however still it means assembly:

Jewish assembly,
religious assembly
Christian assembly (church)
assembly in heaven

Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, (KJV)

Hebrews 12:23 the universal gathering; and to the assembly of the firstborn who are registered in heaven; and to God, judge of all; and to the spirits of just men made perfect; (Darby)

There will be an assembly in heaven.

 

That's exactly how I see it!!

Darren

 

Yes, he did. He also called the congregation at Corinth THE body of Christ. (Ch 12)


I agree with DHK on this one.

 

Out of curiousity is the "Body of Christ" also a local gathered assembly <?>, of course this MUST mean some kind of definite membership for individuals of that same assembly. What's your take on the Body of Christ? Is there ONE Body of Christ or many??

Darren

 

1 Corinthians 12:12-13 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Paul was speaking to the believers at the assembly in Corinth as the "body of Christ," as indeed they were a "body" of believers organized with Christ as their head. They were baptized into one body. The body has many members. They even argued over which member some of them were (allegorically), or what gifts they had, who was more prominent, etc. Paul explained to them that they all had different gifts. They all could not have the same gifts.

1 Corinthians 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.
--One body, many members. This is speaking of the local church at Corinth.

1 Corinthians 12:15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
--A body has only two feet, and two hands, and both must be connected to the body. There can't be three feet and five hands, and just one kidney. The body must work in harmony. Each part must fit together to work properly. We all have our different gifts

1 Corinthians 12:16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
--We all can't be the same thing; do the same thing.

1 Corinthians 12:26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
--This verse testifies to the fact that it can only be a local church. We suffer when one in our own local assembly suffers, not when someone across the continent or in another country that we never heard of suffers. This verse only makes sense in the context of a local church.

"The church, the body of Christ." yes, it is a Biblical statement.
Every church ought to be a body of Christ in that Christ is the head and each member is a part of that body.

 

Is Christ your Saviour? Is he my Saviour? Is He Tom's Savior? Does He dwell in you, Tom, and the others on this board?
But wait: Is Christ divided? How many Christ's are there anyway?
The same question can be asked.

 

Church

Any body can be called a church an assembly place or a place of assembly, but the only called out one's are those who have assembled in Christ.

 

DHK, your quoting of I Corinthians 12 stopped one verse too soon.

V. 27 is the one I have in mind: "Now YE are THE body of Christ...."

Paul was writing to the congregation at Corinth. He described that congregation as THE body of Christ.

That makes at least two local congregations that Paul called THE. Ephesus, which Paul said Jesus shed his blood for in Acts 20:28 is the other.

So you are right. Your church is the body, my church is the body, Darren's church is the body.

Eventually, all believers will assemble to worship the Lamb and to fellowship with him. And it will be one universal church. But not in this age.

 

And it will be when we are all assembled together.

 

Yep. And that's why when the Lord gathers all believers in heaven, it is commonly called the General Assembly.

 

So, what is the purpose of the Universal Church? When does it assemble? When does it worship together? When does it have the Lord's Supper together? What missionaries has it sent, and when did it take up a collection for that purpose?

Why do some of the members of the so-called Universal Church persist in believing error? Why do they persist in dividing the Body by associating with groups which teach error? I do understand that they think I'm in error, but the point is, there is division, there is error in the Universal Church.

There will come a time when the Bride will be chaste and without blemish, because we'll all know the truth and believe it. But it's not today.

 

I am not convinced that there is not "THE Church". ​

There are just too many references and types to point to the fact that there is a collective body of believers called "the church". ​

To call these references "generic" IMO is a smoke screen to cloud that issue (although it is accurate in some places):​

We are assembled together in the heavenlies even in this life:​

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:​

So, if Paul is refering only to the Ephesians, throw the book of Ephesians out as it only speaks to the local church at Ephesus and not your local church. Same for 1 and 2 Corinthians, Galatians, etc...​

That "assembly" is comprised of born again belivers:
Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect.​

With one Overseer:
1 Peter 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.​

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.​

The gates of hell have certainly prevailed over many a local church but not the one built upon the Rock.​

1 Peter
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.​

OK, if it will result in less divisiveness then give it another scriptural name like the Body of Christ, the Bride of Christ, The New Jerusalem (all of these are "perhaps").​

Whenever I see this argument (because that's usually what this debate turns into), and other similar arguments, I (and probably others too timid and/or unregenerate to enter into the debate) can't help thinking of this passage:​

Acts 18
14 And when Paul was now about to open his mouth, Gallio said unto the Jews, If it were a matter of wrong or wicked lewdness, O ye Jews, reason would that I should bear with you:
15 But if it be a question of words and names, and of your law, look ye to it; for I will be no judge of such matters.
16 And he drave them from the judgment seat.​

HankD​

 

It was an oversight, but I'm not quite sure of your point. Please elaborate.

 

I repeat a question or two. What exactly is the purpose of the Universal Church? What does it do? How does it advance the kingdom?

I might point out that the things that local churches around the world are doing to reach the lost are exactly those things of which the Universal Church is doing zero.