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What the church was expected to look like from Paul's view.

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Catalyst, Jul 11, 2012.

  1. Catalyst

    Catalyst New Member

    Jul 4, 2012
    Likes Received:
    Paul was appointed by divinity...1Ti 2:7 For this I was appointed a [fn]preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. NASB

    Paul is teaching TIMOTHY how Church should be...1Ti 3:15 but [fn]in case I am delayed, I write so that you will know how [fn]one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth NASB

    TIM was to be a teacher as Paul was...1Ti 4:11 [fn]Prescribe and teach these things.
    1Ti 4:13 Until I come, give attention to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation and teaching.
    1Ti 4:16 Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will [fn]ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you. .

    Tim was to rebuke the people if necessary....1Ti 5:1 Do not sharply rebuke an older man, but rather appeal to him as a father, to the younger men as brothers,

    He was to supervise the charitable acts of faith through love... same as gal 5:6 and ephesians 4 dictate...
    1Ti 5:3 Honor widows who are widows indeed;

    He supervised the Charitable works....
    1Ti 5:11 But refuse to put younger widows on the list, for when they feel sensual desires in disregard of Christ, they want to get married,

    He was supervising the reward to the elders...
    1Ti 5:17 The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard [fn]at preaching and teaching.

    He had authority to chastise/rebuke those in the wrong.
    1Ti 5:20 Those who continue in sin, rebuke in the presence of all, so that the rest also will be fearful of sinning.

    His job was to MAINTAIN PAUL'S STANDARDS, how could he do that without having authority over those in the area?
    1Ti 5:21 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of His chosen angels, to maintain these principles without bias, doing nothing in a spirit of partiality.

    Paul taught him to teach works, same as in Eph 4.
    1Ti 6:18 Instruct them to do good, to be rich in good [fn]works, to be generous and ready to share,

    He was to keep the Church's doctrine in line. NOT the elders but HIM over the elders...
    1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called "knowledge"—

    1Ti 6:21 which some have professed and thus gone astray [fn]from the faith. Grace be with you.

    Timothy was taught to pass on the tradition from Paul, or those teachings that weren't written and to pass them on.
    2Ti 1:13 [fn]Retain the standard of sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus.

    2Ti 2:2 The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.

    he was over the people and to guide them.
    2Ti 2:14 Remind them of these things, and solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless and leads to the ruin of the hearers.

    He was supposed to protect against reformations from those that wanted to change the Church as he built it...
    2Ti 4:1 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom:

    2Ti 4:2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with [fn]great patience and instruction.

    2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,

    2Ti 4:4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

    Titus was to appoint over many churches, a leader over many...
    Tts 1:5 For this reason I left you in Crete, that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you,
    BTW, Crete wasn't a small place, it was the MINOAN civilization....
    Ephesus wasn't a little town either. Certainly all in the Church wouldn't fit in one or two houses to talk.

    Titus held authority over the area.
    Tts 2:15 These things speak and exhort and reprove with all [fn]authority. Let no one disregard you.

    There were some appointed to lead.. We see Paul appointed above, and he appointed others that he described as called to their role over the roles of the elders and teachers..... There were those that were called to perform the upper functions of the Church as a corporate whole.
    Eph 4:11 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,

    They were to be taught works of service (see above) Not theology (see gal 5:6)
    Eph 4:11 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,

    Our maturity would keep us together, unified, (see deeds of the flesh gal 5:19-21, And the prayers in John 17)
    until we all attain to the unity of the faith,

    Through works you learn of knowledge of Christ.
    and of the [fn]knowledge of the Son of God,

    How much learning do you do? Til perfection, biblical perfection accurately translated as maturity in the NASB... So you are to be "fully grown up" through works, not theology studies.
    to a mature man,

    How grown up? Same size as Christ.

    How filled up is that size??? same as CHrist..to the measure of the stature

    It can't mean as spiritually grown up as Christ was...... right???? :BangHead:which belongs to the fullness of Christ.

    Paul appointed people to lead areas, and was over the church leaders in the areas, the areas were larger than ONE church in a home would fit, therefore they were over more than one church, most likely tens of churches at least.

    As the person over the area Paul gave them the authority. This is the first pass of Apostolic Authority, from the Apostle to the father.

    Then Paul told tim and titus both to pass it along and to tim to make sure it was to people who could pass it along.
    Here we see that the message was to be kept pure, as Paul also told them to keep it pure.
    Thus they were to train their replacement, in a repeating method to perserve the church's message.
    There is your continuance of the Apostolic succession, and the root basis of tradition can be found when Paul told Timothy to remember the things he SAID, taught by mouth, that Timothy heard Paul teach, and be sure to tell them also. Cough Cough, so much for sola scriptura, those aren't scriptura, they are things entrusted to the ones appointed by the apostles to kep the teaching true and pure and pass it on through the generations.

    And there you have it. The Church in Paul's eyes.
    Around 100ish AD/CE you'll find Clement wrote a letter from the church at Rome to Corinth scolding their bishop for excommunicating so many folks. So, Obviously Clement was spokesperson for another group, and the BISHOPS continued to have that authority over the people that was given to timothy.

    There were preachers and teachers under the Bishops as well.

    So, the early church was led by bishops, NOT just a home school scenario. BUT, that home school collection of Churches, was managed and monitored by people who had the teachings passed on to them, and were trained to carry the tradition from paul forward.

    I don't agree with all of Rome on this.

    But right or wrong, if they are the right Church for apostolic authority or not, I can't say, however their church is much more in line with Paul's descriptions and early history's documents on what the church looked like.

    I was accused of being roman catholic. It's a lie. I was only showing the scriptural backing for why Rome believes as it does. They are much less heretical than the protestants are in many areas, and especially stubborn, hard nosed, baptists that are too busy bragging they know it all to realize they are wrong.
  2. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Nov 4, 2011
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    Early century Rome IS NOT the popery romanists of latter centuries. There is very little of that early gathering that resembles the Roman CC that emerged as the powerhouse at Constantin's conversion.

    Popes have consistently perverted the truth of the Scriptures to their own devices, and for you to attempt to hold some esteem for the RCC is a poor reading of their intent and desire.

    The typical RCC hierarchy has no desire to relate the truth of the Scriptures outside their own special pope and "council" driven decrees.

    Peter and Paul would be ashamed that their name became associated with that group.

    Personally, I find them anti-christ in so many areas that it is nauseous that believers would even consider that group as part of the fellowship in this modern times. They have a long history of deceit, of doubtful rendering of Scriptures, and of historical manipulation of society and assemblies for their own glory and not for the Glory of God.