What to say to someone who has "deconverted"

complete fallacy

 

Thanks John. I wasn't sure. And I agree to a large extent.

No one on this earth knows whether the person is saved. I am uncomfortable even acting as a fruit inspector. I would have looked at Lot's actions and never declared him righteous. I think we ought to leave it "at your actions don't really measure up to how a believer ought to live" and seek to bring them back.

I do wonder if this lady will be on to the next new thing if the OP checks back in a few months/years.

 

Rubbish!

Pews are not just for the saved. That's a fact.

Jesus speant a lot more time dining with sinners than he did preaching to them. That's a fact.

I can't help but wonder the exact same thing.

 

Then at least it's a country club based on the word of God, because scripture makes it very clear that church is for the church, not for the world.

Actually, that isn't true. But I understand that it's a very popular claim among liberals.

So how long does the Bible say it takes for a born again person to start showing evidence of being born again?

I won't go as far as to call that statement heresy, but it carries a lot of baggage with it that could easily be considered heretical.

And if they're not saved, then I guess that's OK, too, since church isn't only for the saved. Right?

 

Actually, it's not a fact. It's another silly liberal claim. Jesus didn't say "I have come to go out to Denny's with sinners" but "I have come to call sinners to repentance."

Honestly, where do you people get this stuff?

 

And how long does one have to bear bad fruit before it's evident that they're a bad tree?

 

That's right we are to do our witnessing on the streets.

No where in the Bible does it command sinners to com into the church.~ Dr. Curtis Hudson

 

You guys are hillarious. Do you folks honestly not allow people to come to your churches unless they're saved? Seems rather odd.

 

If it's a country club, it's not based on the Word of God.

Nice try, but not so. Jesus so often dined with sinners that the religious folks accused him of gluttony and drunkenness.

I believe you are changed immediately, but salvation is not a slot machine. You don't just pull the slot and get quarters out. Salvation is the beginning of bearing fruit, not the end of it.

That coudl be a topic for further discussion elsewhere. I don't believe in the "name it and claim it" soft of salvation. It's not a light switch. OTOH, your'e eithe saved or not saved. There's no inbetween. This woudl make for an interesting discussion elsewhere.

I'll be happy to let my pastor know that he no longer needs to give the gospel message during the sermon, since only saved people are allowed to come to church.

I think you're confusing the Body of Christ with a physical house of worship. A house of worship is not for members of the Body of Christ only. The church building should be a hospital, where people who are sick can come and get treatment.

 

No, we don't allow people to join our church unless they have a credible, Biblical salvation testimony, unless they can be observed to bear fruits consistent with being born again, unless they've had at least some discipleship, and unless they've been baptised.

 

But it is based on the word of God and you're the one who's declared it to be a country club.

...and that's why fire engines are red.

So then, why do you say it doesn't happen immediately?

"Come to church" is not the same as being a part of the church body. Our doors are open to anyone. The membership rolls are not.

Then it's your word against God's word.

 

Ann you have to be careful around here. unless you also explain exactly what you do not mean in a 10 point list there are those who want to use your words to intentionally distort your position only because they don't agree with what you really intended.

 

I Corinthians 14:9
So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

 

Nice try playing the middle-man game, but it won't work. Annsi always conducts her comments in a respectful manner and knows how to engage in civil discussion. I respect her for that greatly.

 

The church is where sick peopl can come to get well. If it keeps out sick people who need help, it's not based on the Word of God.

Some are yellow, but, anyhoo...

There's a difference between "happening immediately" and "starting immediately". It starts immediately.

You're right. Never said otherwise. If a person wants to be a member, they must be saved first. But they should be treated like family the moment they walk in the door.

 

I did. You said if someone comes in to the church unsaved, by all means, we are to welcome them and preach to them the Gospel. But you were also expressed agreement with Revmitchell's notion that the unsaved should not be in the pews.

To get the sick people well, of course. But we can't do that unless we let the sick people in.

 

"[T]he prime aim of congregations [is] satisfying the spiritual needs of their members, not the drawing in of new ones". ---Soviet directive to state-registered Baptist churches, c. 1960.

 

If I may, it sounds as if everyone is arguing the same point. The church is made up of those who are saved and membership should be limited to the saved. The goal of this group of believers is to praise and bring glory to God.

However the church is open to being visited by those who are seeking Christ but are not yet saved so they can hear the gospel, learn from the bible, see Christian love displayed and be witnessed to so that the mission of the church - reaching the lost for Christ - can be accomplished which leads to the church bringing glory to God.

The distinction would be between those the church (as in the Body of Christ) is witnessing to and those who already make up the Body of Christ.

Am I missing another distinction?

Thank you for the discussion,
Johnathon