What Wins a Debate?

One has won a debate when his intended audience is persuaded. Most of the Epicureans said Paul lost the debate on Mars Hill, but Dionysius and Damaris would have said he won it.

I chose none of the options. Abrasiveness neither helps nor hinders. Thin-skinned people should abstain from debate.

 

I don't think you can win or lose a debate, you can only present the facts. Whether the other person will listen or not is up to them. If a person sincerely wants to know the truth they will be open to the other's point of view and give it some consideration. Those who aren't interested in finding truth are not open to other points of view.

We see this with Paul in Acts several times.

Acts 28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

We can be fairly certain that Paul's arguments were truthful and without error. Those who were sincerely interested in the truth listened and considered his arguments and believed. Those who were not open-minded or were deceived by false doctrine did not.

You can't win them all.

 

When a debater turns a abrasive, it's because he's out of ammunition.

Or he's just a jerk.

 

Brother Tom, I agree with you 100%

 

Could it be they are just firing blanks?

Cheers,

Jim

 

I chose "other". I think the most important point of debate is truth. Either one has it and one doesn't, both have part of it, or both have none of it. The side that presents the most truth "wins" so to speak.

 

In a so-called "debate" (I still call it arguing), only one can be right when they are taking opposite views. Of course, they could also both be wrong if neither is speaking the truth.

If you get two people from two false religions "debating" what they believe, they are still both wrong.

Unfortunately most people don't want to hear the truth of God's word--not when they're told that anything they do is sin. Their mind is made up, and they don't want to be bothered with facts.

 

To be fair John, I did not say abrasiveness helps win a debate. Valid and sound arguments win debates. I never said otherwise.

Abrasiveness, as you call it, I prefer bluntness and frankness, is the nature of debate. It is what we man up and deal with.

Debate is not fellowship. Fellowship is fellowship. There are some threads for that very thing.

Your problem on the previous thread to which you are referring is that you could not deal with being told you were full of bologna on a particular argument you were making. That is what spawned this thread.

But the fact of the matter is that you were full of bologna on that matter.

That's not abrasiveness- it is fact. Facts also win debates.

 

I particularly liked and found useful to this particular site the line that said:

"Attack the idea not the person."

We are trying to attack ideas. We are not drinking Earl Grey Tea.

We are submitting our ideas to what we hope to be severe scrutiny to see how they stand up. The fire of scrutiny purges the dross from our ideas. Those who put our ideas through that fire do us a favor.

Those who suck up to us and play patty cake with us are no help at all.

Those people serve only to keep us in darkness and ignorance and they blow up our pride- which needs deflating usually, not inflating.

 

No, actually I have not turned on my computer for the past couple of days due to the holidays.

The sad thing is that you started this thread to try to prove me wrong by popular opinion and wrong on something that I did not even purport.

YOU said I was being abrasive. I was not. I told you you need to be man enough to not play that card every time someone destroys your arguments. They are doing you a favor. I told you I was not attacking your character, and proved it beyond a shadow of a doubt, but I was decimating your arguments.

Decimating arguments does win a debate.

You turned it personal, not me. You started this silly business about needing to respect my elders which had NOTHING to do with your support of these silly "extremely strict" colleges. On that note, I am not in my 50's, but I have been preaching for fifteen years, married for ten and have five children. I am not some kid out of high school (although, a kid out of high school is also perfectly right to decimate your arguments too).

 

Yes, and this is my point.

To say that we should not be blunt and strong in a debate is absolute, utter nonsense. Some how or another we have got to get it through our thick skulls that there is a difference between fellowship and debate.

Debate is a wonderful thing if the debaters set out to fulfill the purposes of debate.

Fellowship is a glorious thing if the people fellowshipping are doing what fellowship is supposed to accomplish.

Debate is not fellowship. Debate is tossing your ideas to the lions. If your ideas don't render the lions toothless- if they are consumed- then, hey, get some better ideas. The lions have done you a favor

The point of debate is to test the metal of ideas. You don't do that over a spot of tea.

Fellowship is meant to encourage and strengthen one another and to build up one another. Debate is meant to tear down NOT ONE ANOTHER BUT one another's ideas.

If my ideas have holes it is your Christian duty to expose them.

If my ideas are strong- it your Christian duty to admit it and then re-examine your own ideas.

That is the purpose of debate.

Iron does not sharpen iron apart from friction.


The wounds of a friend are faithful.

NOBODY is advocating being a donkey. NOBODY is advocating being rude. That is stupid and distracts from the purpose of debate which is to test ideas.

But rolling over is the worst thing you can do to a Christian Brother or Sister in debate. The worst thing. Failing to call their ideas what they are is a cowardly abandonment of your duty to them in a debate. You leave them in darkness. You prop up their falsehoods. You are not doing them any favors- so don't pat yourself on the back for being super Christian when you have actually failed your Christian brothers and sisters by being deceptively soft on their ideas.

Love them without boundaries- but tear down their ideas without mercy. BTW, you cannot do one without the other when it comes to debate.