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Featured What's YOUR definition of "predestination" in Scripture ?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by robycop3, Nov 27, 2019.

  1. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    This subject came up on another thread in another sub-forum here. I'm posting this in this sub-forum so all Christians can wade in, Baptist or not.

    Personally, MY definition of it in Scripture is that all people are predestined to go to either heaven or hell, depending upon one's righteousness, and, for us under the New Covenant, whether or not we came to Jesus in genuine belief & submission.
     
  2. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    Let us have the text decide.
    Here are the verses in the Bible.

    Acts 4:28 to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.

    Romans 8:29-30 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

    Ephesians 1:5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

    Ephesians 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

    Strong's Greek: 4309. προορίζω (proorizó) -- to predetermine, foreordain
    4309. proorizó ►

    Strong's Concordance

    proorizó: to predetermine, foreordain

    Original Word: προορίζω
    Part of Speech: Verb
    Transliteration: proorizó
    Phonetic Spelling: (pro-or-id'-zo)
    Definition: to predetermine, foreordain
    Usage: I foreordain, predetermine, mark out beforehand.

    4309 proorízō (from 4253 /pró, "before" and 3724 /horízō, "establish boundaries, limits") – properly, pre-horizon, pre-determine limits (boundaries) predestine.

    [4309 (proorízō) occurs six times in the NT (eight in the writings of Paul). Since the root (3724 /horízō) already means "establish boundaries," the added prefix (pro, "before") makes 4309 (proorízō) "to pre-establish boundaries," i.e. before creation.]

    Predestinate - Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words - Bible Dictionary
    Predestinate


    1: προορίζω [https://www]
    (Strong's #4309 — Verb — proorizo — pro-or-id'-zo )

    see DETERMINE.

    Note: This verb is to be distinguished from proginosko, "to foreknow;" the latter has special reference to the persons foreknown by God; proorizo has special reference to that to which the subjects of His foreknowledge are "predestinated." See FOREKNOW , A and B.

    Determine
    Determine, Determinate - Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words - Bible Dictionary

    2: ὁρίζω [https://www]
    (Strong's #3724 — Verb — horizo — hor-id'-zo )

    denotes "to bound to set a boundary" (Eng., "horizon"); hence, "to mark out definitely, determine;" it is translated "to determine" in Luke 22:22 , of the foreordained pathway of Christ; Acts 11:29 , of a "determination" to send relief; Acts 17:26 , where it is used of fixing the bounds of seasons. In Acts 2:23 the verb is translated "determinate," with reference to counsel. Here the verbal form might have been adhered to by the translation "determined;" that is to say, in the sense of "settled." In Romans 1:4 it is translated "declared," where the meaning is that Christ was marked out as the Son of God by His resurrection and that of others (see under DECLARE). In Acts 10:42 ; 17:31 it has its other meaning of "ordain," that is, "to appoint by determined counsel." In Hebrews 4:7 , it is translated "limiteth," but preferably in the RV, "defineth," with reference to a certain period; here again it approaches its primary meaning of marking out the bounds of. See DECLARE , No. 9, LIMIT ORDAIN.

    3: προορίζω [https://www]
    (Strong's #4309 — Verb — proozio — pro-or-id'-zo )

    pro, "beforehand," and No. 2, denotes "to mark out beforehand, to determine before, foreordain;" in Acts 4:28 , AV, "determined before," RV, "foreordained;" so the RV in 1 Corinthians 2:7 , AV, "ordained;" in Romans 8:29,30 and Ephesians 1:5,11 , AV, "predestinate," RV, "foreordain." See ORDAIN , Note (1), PREDESTINATE.
     
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  3. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    ...depending upon one's righteousness...

    What does scripture say about your claim?

    Romans 3:10-18 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” “Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known.” “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
     
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  4. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    So you don't believe everyone was ever saved ?
     
  5. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    But WHO did God predestinate besides some of the patriarchs & prophets in Scripture, those to whom He made His power known ?
     
  6. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    Wow, another jumping of the shark.
    Here's what I responded to from the OP:

    "MY definition of it in Scripture is that all people are predestined to go to either heaven or hell, depending upon one's righteousness"

    My point is that no one is predestined based upon one's righteousness.

    "All we have turned—every one—to his own way;..."
    "All our righteousness is as filthy rags..."

    Must I go on?

    Not once do I make a claim anything remotely even close to your question.

    Predestination is NOT based on a person's righteousness before they are redeemed.
     
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  7. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    What do the verses in the Bible tell you?
     
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  8. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Pretty sure robycop3 is the one asking you a direct question. Responding by avoiding answering with an open ended question is a sad ploy.
     
  9. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    Pretty sure God tells him if he reads the text I quoted in my first post.
    Second, Jesus asked questions of questioner's all the time when he recognized they could figure out the answer themselves.
     
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  10. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Remember, the Old Covenant saints such as Moses or David didn't know who Jesus is. But God counted them righteous for trying to obey His every word, from their HEARTS, not by just going thru the motions.

    And some, such as Moses, Samuel, David, & Jeremiah were indeed predestinated.
     
  11. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    no they chose to obey God at all points in there life
     
  12. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    They knew the promises of the Adamic covenant and the Abrahamic covenant. They knew the promised one was coming. The writer of Hebrews tells us:
    Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth.

    So, all the covenants point the saints of old toward faith in the promised one who would redeem them.

    Job 19:25-27 For I know that my Redeemer lives, and at the last he will stand upon the earth. And after my skin has been thus destroyed, yet in my flesh I shall see God, whom I shall see for myself, and my eyes shall behold, and not another. My heart faints within me!
     
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  13. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    We are only pre destined to a place, time and even a family to be able to understand choices
     
  14. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Ch/verse of predestined to go to hell or heaven but esp hell
     
  15. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Speak to the rock.
     
  16. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    YES, He did not always make good choices and had bad consequences but he did choose to follow God
     
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  17. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Active Member
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    It does not matter what “my definition” is. All that matters is the original text and what does it mean.

    And most people do not like it
     
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  18. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    They tell me just what I said-that, while God predestinated a few for special service to Him, everyone else must choose to come to Jesus to be saved.
     
  19. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    That's what I said, in other words.
     
  20. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    And once again - If everyone were already "predestinated", with no chance to change their status, then preaching, Bibles, etc. are useless.
     
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