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Featured When Did the KJVO Movement Start?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by John of Japan, May 5, 2014.

  1. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I'm 62 now. I don't remember the movement raising any red flags in my mind until just before our first furlough in '86, at which time I thought I'd better know what was going on in case a pastor asked me about it. Not a single pastor said a word about it!
    Good old Lester. I don't remember him ever mentioning the subject when I was at Temple '72 to '76, and he preached there often.
    They're still coming occasionally, such as the William Carey Bible Society, made up of refugees from the DBS from what I've heard. :smilewinkgrin:
    Then we agree as to the birth of the movement.
     
  2. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Actually, to my understanding the ASV was the ERV for Americans, and it did have some popularity for awhile, with even fundamentalists quoting from it back in the day.
     
  3. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    That's as close as I can come for any particular date of the movement's beginning, as the launch of Fuller's book and its promotion thru modern media caused quite a few people to read both Fuller's and Ray's boox. And I believe many folx saw "Dr." before Fuller's name & therefore accepted his writings without question, as well as those of Ray, who was cited by Fuller.

    The launching of that last 'foundation' book of Fuller's, I believe, had more to do with the founding of the current KJVO movement, and the creation of the KJVO myth, than any other single event I can think of. While there were dregs of past KJVO beta-movements dragged into that new one, the current movement has supplanted all the older ones. The old ones were wrong, and so is the current one.

    The new KJVOs did NOT know that Ray copied a large part of Wilkinson's book verbatim, without acknowledging Wilkinson whatsoever, and while Fuller acknowledged Wilkinson, he was careful to avoid mentioning Wilkinson's CULT AFFILIATION.

    So we see the KJVO movement founding was cultic and dishonest. With such a beginning, how can any Christian believe it came from GOD ? ?
     
    #43 robycop3, May 6, 2014
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  4. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Personally I think it is a mistake to broad brush the entire movement. There are dishonest people in it as everywhere and those without ethics on both sides of the issue (as I have learned in personal contact). But there are also good, godly people, many pastors and friends (some who are both) who might characterize themselves as KJVO.

    This thread was started as a search for historical evidence. I hope it doesn't turn into bashing by either side.
     
  5. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Speaking of historical evidence, I have Samuel Gipp's An Understandable History of the Bible. I also have Final Authority by KJVO historian Bill Grady, though the book is not a history per se. Neither of these books mention anything about a 19th century KJVO movement that I can find.

    My question is, if there was an organized KJVO movement in the 19th century, why do neither of these men, ostensible historians, mention it? Seems like they would be "all over" the idea of giving historical credence to the movement! :type:
     
  6. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Correct. The ASV was the ERV with some "Americanisms." And most fundamentalists referred to it as "The Rock of Biblical Honesty." :)
     
  7. prophet

    prophet Active Member
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    I don't think William Grady considers himself a part of any movement, and certainly his book wasn't about the movement.

    Gipp , IMO, isn't really a credible source, to any outside of the movement. I'm not so sure that he would know about it, if there was.
     
  8. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    A definitive answer to your question is problematical. Regretfully, there was no Tun Tavern (birthplace of the USMC) event to point to.
     
  9. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I'm surprised to know you think so little of Gipp. At any rate, he's part of the movement. As for Grady, he's written two books defending the KJB and they have been endorsed by various in the movement, and he speaks on the subject around the country. Don't know why you think he's not part of the movement. And as for his books not being "about the movement," no one in the movement writes "about the movement," they write defending their position and ostensibly the KJB.

    So, my point still stands, regardless of your objections. :cool:
     
    #49 John of Japan, May 7, 2014
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  10. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    And no Alamo? And no Pearl Harbor? :eek:
     
  11. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe Active Member

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  12. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Nope, no three brothers meeting at a Cracker Barrel on a Sunday afternoon deciding to form a movement.
     
  13. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Dr. Grady has made msny You Tube videos advocating the KJVO myth, as well as writing several boox advocating that myth. If he's not part of the movement, then neither is Gail Riplinger. Thing is, he repeats some of the claptrap from Dr. Wilkinson's book, which is the "foundation stone" of the current KJVO myth.

    For a man with a doctorate. Dr. Gipp shows quite a lack of research in many parts of his "Wrong Answer Book". One example is his trying to attribute the "Easter" goof in the KJV to the supposed worship of "Astarte", etc. to Herod, a totally-false supposition. Like other KJVOs, Dr. Gipp must be inventive in creating excuses to attempt to support the KJVO myth.

    And while there's no "official" KJVO org behind the movement, there are enough KJVOs spread around to create dissent in many congregations. KJVO is one of Satan's success stories, as it has Christians at loggerheads with each other, and casts doubt on many perfectly-valid English Bible translations.

    Because of this, part of our work as Christians is to work against the KJVO myth and other false doctrines. Unfortunately, it seems a larger percentage Baptists subscribe to KJVO than do the members of any other large, legitimate denomination. Thus, we Baptists have double duty to try to cleanse our congregations of this pack of lies.

    And, back to the OP...as I told John of Japan, it seems the KJVO movement received a large boost from BAPTIST Dr. D. O. Fuller's 1970 book, Which Bible? and again, I believe many people said to themselves, "Fuller is a DOCTOR; therefore he knows what he's talking about", thus causing a number of people to believe the KJVO myth without bothering to check out the VERACITY of its salient points, its overall falsehood, its dishonest, man-made beginnings, and its total lack of SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT.
     
  14. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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  15. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Thanks, Dr. Cassidy.
     
  16. Bob Alkire

    Bob Alkire New Member

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    I still use the ASV 1901 some today. Yes it was used by many fundamentalists. I know Alva J. McClain, Holt and Grace Theological Seminary taught out of it for years.
     
  17. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    It's in a lot of software packages for free, but for the NASB you have to sell your horse to afford it. :BangHead:
     
  18. prophet

    prophet Active Member
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    You think, huh?

    I guess I have to type the actual quote in, for you scholarly types.

    I have an android phone, I dont own a p.c.
    Too bad you guys can't just do your own homework.

    If you can read page 901, and don't see the KJVO backlash, at the 1842 revision of the King James, then you probably struggle with 19th century English.




    "Many others also talked as much at random as if they feared that the book which they hinted had come down from heaven in about its present shape, printed and bound, was now to be taken from them by force."

    Hai, Tomadashi!
     
  19. prophet

    prophet Active Member
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    Excerpts concerning the state of the KJVO in the mid 1800's
    Taken from Armitage's "A History of the Baptists" Vol.2: page 901.

    "Most of its journals were flooded with comnumications,pro and con, sermons were preached in a number of pul pits denouncing the movement, and public meetings were held in several cities to the same end, notable amongst them one at the Oliver Street Church, in New York, April 4th, 1850."

    The movement being denounced here, as usual, is the movement to revise the King James.

    "and still others full of fiery denunciation of Cone, Wyckoif and Colgate, and their sympathizers ; as if they were guilty of the basest crime for desiring as good a version for the English speaking people as the Baptists were giving to the East Indians."

    Tell me this isn't KJVO.

    You can act like it isn't, but nothing is new under the Sun.
    This battle started in 1836 in the American Bible societies.

    There were similar battles in England 200 years before that.

    1970 was just another wave....
     
  20. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    What was actually written was "Men of the highest ability took sides and published their views, some demanding revision at once, others admitting its necessity but hesitating as to what might be the proper method to procure it, and still others full of fiery denunciation of Cone, Wyckoff and Colgate, and their sympathizers; as if they were guilty of the basest crime for desiring as good a version for the English speaking people as the Baptists were giving to the East Indians. Many others also talked as much at random as if they feared that the book which they hinted had come down from heaven in about its present shape, printed and bound, was now to be taken from them by force."

    A history of the Baptists: traced by their vital principles and practices from the time of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ to the year 1886 by Thomas Armitage - January 1, 1887, Bryan, Taylor - Publisher, page 901.
     
    #60 TCassidy, May 8, 2014
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