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Where Abraham's Bosom A.K.A Paradise Was

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Hark, Mar 3, 2021.

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  1. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    In Luke 16:19-31 is the parable of the rich man & the beggar named Lazarus where Lazarus had gone to Abraham's bosom & the rich man had gone to hell. The rich man can see Abraham afar off in Abraham's bosom in Luke 16:23 & was able to communicate with Abraham & vise versa in Luke 16:24-26.

    In Luke 23:43, Jesus said to the one thief that he will be with him in Paradise that day.

    Then we have this:

    Ephesians 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. 8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) KJV

    1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; KJV

    Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. KJV

    Such testimonies from scripture places Abraham's bosom also known as Paradise, as beneath the earth but not in hell for where the spirits of the Old Testament saints went to after they die.


    We can see evidence of this in where the spirit of the prophet Samuel was called up from in violation of God's commandment by the former King Saul in consulting with a medium in 1 Samuel 28:6-20.Quoted below are some of those verses from that reference.

    1 Samuel 28:10 And Saul sware to her by the Lord, saying, As the Lord liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing. 11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel. 12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul. 13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. 14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself. 15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do. 16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the Lord is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy? KJV

    This is why it is an abomination to seek answers from among the dead & not the Lord. Isaiah 8:19

    So when Jesus had risen from the dead in leading the captives in captivity...

    Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. KJV

    And after Jesus had ascended to heaven, that is where Paradise aka Abraham's bosom is now located for when we die, we shall forever be with the Lord in Heaven awaiting our resurrection..

    2 Corinthians 12:1It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. 5 Of such an one will I glory: .......KJV

    1 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. KJV

    Leading the captivity captive in Ephesians 4:8 is testifying about when He had ascended, He brought Paradise & the Old Testament saints with Him to Heaven.

    Ephesians 4:. 8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. KJV

    This is my understanding of where Abraham's bosom aka Paradise was located as beneath the earth near hell but not in hell in the days when Jesus was on earth for when He had shared that parable about the rich man & Lazarus,& after His ascension, Paradise is now located in Heaven, thanks to Jesus Christ the Lord.
     
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  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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  3. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for sharing, but I fail to see the connection. Maybe in time He will show me how Deuteronomy 32:22 is in reference to Luke 16:27-29 I see the hell as referenced in Deuteronomy but not sure how that goes with consuming the earth of her increase & destroying the foundation thereof by that same fire of His wrath.

    Deuteronomy 32:22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains. KJV

    I would apply that the fire of His wrath does burn in hell as a judgment but yet the fire of His rather on the earth & destroying the foundation thereof would be different since it is not an eternal flame or an eternal wrath. I would see His wrath on the earth & the foundation thereof as a purging & a cleansing in creating a new heaven & a new earth event since the earth itself will not be destroyed.

    Not sure if the Lord will confirm this rightly dividing of the word of truth here as if that is what is meant or referring to in Deuteronomy 32:22, but anyway.. thanks for sharing.
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Not as parable, was a true story, and they were in Sheol!
     
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  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    What reference from Moses then is being referred to in Luke 16:29? ". . . They have Moses . . . ."
     
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  6. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    I point out, Jesus does not always announce that He is stating a parable, but I agree that it reads as a true story.
     
  7. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure how Deuteronomy 32:22 would have warned that rich man just by testifying that there is a hell when he does not know why he would wind up there. His request for Abraham to send someone from the dead to warn others has to come with whatever Moses & the prophets had written for why & how they would wind up there if the rich man in hell hoped to spare his five brothers from joining him in hell.

    But I guess maybe I can see knowing that there is a hell & their dead brother is in it, would turn their hearts to God to seek Him & His words to escape the fate their brother was damned in forever.

    Okay. Thank you for sharing.
     
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The rich man was below Abraham and Lazarus looking up per Luke 16:23. And Deuteronomy 32:22 is the only reference to fire in Sheol aka Hades, besides Luke 16:19-31. And David wrote in his Psalms, Psalms 86:13, "For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell." Hell aka Sheol aka Hades, Luke 16:23.
     
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  9. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Right. Abraham's bosom aka Paradise is not in hell, but across from hell & yet not in Heaven where God dwells, but after Jesus's resurrection & ascension, Paradise aka Abraham's bosom is now located in Heaven per the OP..
     
  10. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    ABRAHAM'S BOSOM:
    By: Kaufmann Kohler
    In the New Testament and in Jewish writings a term signifying the abodeof bliss in the other world. According to IV Macc. xiii. 17, the righteous who die for their faith are received by Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in paradise (compare Matt. viii. 11: "Many shall come from the east and the west and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven"). In Ḳid. 72b, Adda bar Ahaba, a rabbi of the third century, is said to be "sitting in the bosom of Abraham," which means that he has entered paradise. With this should be compared the statement of R. Levi (Gen. R. xlviii.): "In the world to come Abraham sits at the gate of Gehenna, permitting none to enter who bears the seal of the covenant" (see Circumcision).

    In the Hellenistic Testament of Abraham it is Adam, the representative of humanity, who sits at the gate of hell and paradise; the Jewish view of later times placed Abraham, the progenitor of Israel, in Adam's place. This was also the view of the New Testament writers as presented in Luke, xvi. 19-31, the story of Lazarus and the rich man. Lazarus, the beggar, died and was carried by the angels into Abraham's Bosom; the rich man died and was put into Gehenna, where he saw Lazarus in the Bosom of Abraham, full of joy, whereas he suffered great torment. Thereat he cried: "Father Abraham, have mercy on me!" and finally he asked Abraham to send Lazarus to his father's house to admonish his five brothers to lead lives characterized by repentance, in order not to meet the same fate as his own. Whereupon Abraham said: "They have the law of Moses and the teachings of the prophets; let them be mindful of these, and they will enter paradise as well as Lazarus." On Lazarus (Eliezer) and Abraham see Geiger's "Jüdische Zeitschrift für Wissenschaft und Leben," vii. 200. It is plain that Abraham is here viewed as the warden of paradise, like Michael in Jewish and St. Peter in Christian folk-lore ("Texts and Studies," v. 55, 69, Cambridge). Of Abraham as attorney pleading for Israel, R. Jonathan also speaks (Shab. 89b).

    ABRAHAM'S BOSOM - JewishEncyclopedia.com
     
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  11. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Abrahams Bosom
    Abraham's Bosom (ὁ κόλπος Α᾿βραάμ): There was no name which conveyed to the Jews the same associations as that of Abraham. As undoubtedly he was in the highest state of felicity of which departed spirits are capable, "to be with Abraham" implied the enjoyment of the same felicity; and "to be in Abraham's bosom" meant to be in repose and happiness with him (comp. Josephus, De Macc. § 13; 4 Maccabees 13:16). The latter phrase is obviously derived from the custom of sitting or reclining at table which prevailed among the Jews in and before the time of Christ. SEE ACCUBATION. By this arrangement the head of one person was necessarily brought almost into the bosom of the one who sat above him, or at the top of the triclinium, and the guests were so arranged that the most favored were placed so as to bring them into that situation with respect to the host (comp. Joh 13:23; Joh 21:20). SEE BOSOM. These Jewish images and modes of thought are amply illustrated by Lightfoot, Schottgen, and Wetstein, who illustrate Scripture from rabbinical sources. It was quite usual to describe a just person as being with Abraham, or lying on Abraham's bosom; and as such images were unobjectionable, Jesus accommodated his speech to them, to render himself the more intelligible by familiar notions, when, in the beautiful parable of the rich man and Lazarus, he describes the condition of the latter after death under these conditions (Lu 16:22-23). SEE HADES.

    Abrahams Bosom from the McClintock and Strong Biblical Cyclopedia.
     
  12. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    That can be applied to Abraham's bosom not located in Heaven at that time before or when Christ was on earth, but is now located in Heaven after His ascension..

    I am not sure if Abraham's bosom should be derived as him being at the gates of Gehenna any more than Peter being in Heaven is at the so called Pearly Gates to decide who enters & who does not.

    Obviously, one can discern that assumptions or wishful thinking has been made but not necessarily supported by scripture.

    God does the judgment as to where the souls goes.
     
  13. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    As the OP is now banned for 6 months this thread is closed.
     
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