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Featured Where do some preachers get their "papers"?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Reynolds, Sep 19, 2022.

  1. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Had a man tell me today that he left the church he was going to for several reasons. The main one was hilarious. Preacher had preached about Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego in the fiery furnace. Man asked preach after service where Daniel was. Preach said in the furnace. Man said, no he was not, the fourth man was either an angel or Christ. Preach said Daniel and Shadrach were the same person. Preacher got mad and threw a tantrum when man told him they were not the same person, Daniel was Belteshazzar.

    This is not seminary stuff. This is second grade Sunday School stuff.
     
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  2. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Had a professor tell us of his first pastorate. He preached Jesus is God. Prominent member came to him after the sermon and told him that he (the member) had been there 40 years and had never heard that Jesus is God.

    It was a very turbulent 3 years. When he left, they voted to change the church constitution to never again hire a seminary educated preacher.

    peace to you
     
  3. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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  4. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I think there is a happy balance somewhere. Some of the best pastors I have ever known did not go to seminary. The worst three I have ever known had Doctorates. Those who go to seminary and seek knowledge to use for the work of the Lord make good pastors. Too many go to seminary to obtain knowledge simply because they love knowledge.
     
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  5. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    I visited a church a couple of time - he had a Doctorates. He preached on a seminary level.
     
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  6. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    What was the issue nobody had preached on the Deity of Christ or did the professor preached a Jesus Only type of sermon?
     
  7. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    As I understood it, it was that they had never been taught the deity of Christ.

    I agree with Reynolds you don’t need a seminary degree to be a good preacher, but you do need to be educated with a thorough knowledge of scripture.

    It seems I remember a passage (proverb?) that says something along the lines of “always learning but never understanding” which seems to be his point.

    I had another friend tell me his deacons complained in a meeting, “Bible, Bible, Bible!!! All you do is talk about the Bible!”

    Back to the OP, you can pay $15-20 online and get a license to preach.

    peace to you
     
  8. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    I’ve never understood why some hate theological education

    there is good and bad in all ie educated BW noneducated

    that’s all from me
     
  9. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I have no problem with education. Too much learning seems to make some lose their mind.
     
  10. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    What do you think, Reverend Silverhair or would Most Reverend Silverhair would be better. ;)
     
  11. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I believe the use of the title “reverend” to refer to men is inappropriate. Reverence belongs to God alone.

    “Most Reverend” would be slightly more inappropriate than “reverend”, but slightly less inappropriate than “Most High Holy Reverend”

    peace to you
     
  12. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Psalm 111:9, " He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name."

    Reverend is showing respect
    From Blue Bible

    and being in Psalms - it is not a command
     
  13. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Is there anywhere in scripture where “Reverend” is used to refer to a man/woman instead of God?

    peace to you
     
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  14. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    How do we teach a person to be a shepherd? What are the essential tools a shepherd needs and what mentoring should happen under established shepherds.

    I think, from a past thread, that @Reynolds and I are in agreement that the vast majority of seminary grads are coming out without a compassionate love for sheep. They are trained to write a sermon and give lectures. They are trained, not as shepherds, but as administrators of a non-profit organization.

    If I could make a comparison, the pastorate has gone the way of doctoring. In the past, my father-in-law (a retired general practitioner doctor who delivered over 3000 children) made house calls and once needed to drive his snowmobile to a house in a blizzard. Now, doctors are corralled under a for-profit corporation where patients are marshalled in and out of the system and clinics are regionalized. Some doctors are brought in online so they don't even live in a community. It's become pure corporate.

    The pastorate and churches often function as an administrative non-profit organization with the pastors functioning as administrators who provide classes for members, blog posts to reach unchurched readers, meetings to plan and organize volunteers for the Wednesday training sessions, and responding to anyone who makes an appointment to come in and see them.

    Very few pastors are actually functional shepherds. Instead, they are functional administrators.
    Our seminaries are graduating administrators to fit within a corporate business model of "church." We, the church, bought in to a numbers game that more people in the pew is the objective rather than more mature, healthy, sheep being the objective. Building community has given sway to building more programs and larger buildings. Seminary students are coming out with admin skills and little to no capacity to shepherd. We get folks who have spent more time on their final thesis for graduation than they have spent caring for sheep.
     
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  15. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Actually, not an uncommon occurrence in the evangelical realm where Jn 3:16 is the banner, and God sent HIS SON to die, and the emphasis of the preaching is on making sheep in lieu of feeding sheep such insignificant nuances like 'Jesus is God'. I grew up in a hyper-evangelical, hyper-Dispensational Southern Baptist church and this is precisely what occurred with me. I felt like I had been lied to.
     
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  16. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    and this is probably a "necessity of the "mega-church"

    I just checked out a SBC mega-church - with about 4,000 attending weekly
    and they have 25 pastors. Lets assume, there are 4 people per family - thus we have
    1,000 families. If the pastor made 3 visits per week - it would take him 333 weeks to
    visit every family. That 333 weeks = 6.4 years -- that would be rather hard to be a shepherd.
    (BTW - that church has 13,000 members - which means only about 30% of the membership are
    active in the church.

    How about starting some new local churches!
     
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  17. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Many of the Mega Churches actually have it figured out pretty well. They use small groups and small group leaders to supplement the pastors. The pastors usually attend the small groups every couple of months.
     
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  18. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Those pastors should be attending every week.

    Chances are - some people are driving 50 -100 miles to attend a mega - church
    which is NO LONGER a LOCAL church.

    I wonder - if a couple who are members of Lakewood and want to get married -
    what are their chances that Joel would officiate.
     
  19. Piper

    Piper Member

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    I was in a Mega church with about 40 pastors, 3500 regular attenders. If we split that up, every family could get a visit every other year, approximately. But they do nothing of the sort. They rely on small groups.
     
  20. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    The the "senior" pastor - is no more than a CEO
     
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