Featured Where is satans Kingdom and is it Still in force?

So this...


Revelation 11:15

King James Version (KJV)

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

...has already been fulfilled?


God bless.

 

Th Book With Seven Seals Has Nothing to Say about the Redemption of the Earth.

I read the 5th Chapter of Revelation and see nothing about the Book having anything to do with the redemption of the earth. I am posting that Scripture in case it is not in your Bible. Could you please show me where it says the Book with seven seals has anything to do with the redemption of the earth?

Revelation 5:1-14
1. And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
2. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
3. And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
4. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
5. And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
6. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7. And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
8. And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
9. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10. And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
11. And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
12. Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
13. And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
14. And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

 

Most people, whether Christian or not, would be amazed at the assertions of "rm". It certainly appears that he has got his wires crossed when it comes to GOD and Satan.

 

So this...


Revelation 11:15

King James Version (KJV)

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


...has already been fulfilled?


God bless.

 

In the KJV it resembles a Book with seven seals. In some other versions it resembles a Scroll with seven seals. Now show me where in the 5th chapter of Revelation the Book or Scroll is called the Book/Scroll "of the redemption of the Earth." In fact show me from any where in Scripture where this Book/Scroll is called the Book/Scroll "of the redemption of the Earth."

Revelation 5:1-14
1. And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
2. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
3. And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
4. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
5. And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
6. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7. And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
8. And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
9. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10. And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
11. And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
12. Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
13. And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
14. And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

 

You know what Darrel, you have done it. You have successfully argued me into the Amill camp. Yes that will mean I'm going to have to study a lot since all I have studied really for the last 20 years is dispensational view points, but as I was just telling my husband I pride myself in being consistent and as you have just shown the only way to be consistent is to join the Amill camp.

 

You were already there, you just didn't realize it yet.

It was evident in your support of a-millers and statements like "I am pre-millennial...I am not pre-trib, I am not post-trib," et cetera.

Well at least you're being honest now, lol.

So are you going to answer any of the questions posed?


God bless.

 

Just respond to my post #22!

 

Please respond to post #25.


God bless.

 

Granted I'm brand new to this camp and have no idea what the official view point is but from just a brief look at some "kingdom" passages and comparing them to the new heaven and new earth, I see no reason to say that they can't be in the new heaven and new earth. Besides I just realized (amazing how you see lots of things when a light bulb comes on) the new heaven and new earth is forever, and Christ reign is forever, the land was promised to the Jews forever, yet it is the dispensational camp that says forever is only 1000 years, which by definition is not forever.

 

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8
But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. Heb 2:6-8 excluding last sentence.
For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; Rom 6:20 NLKV
But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia. Dan 10:13

I believe Satan was the futility the creation was subjected to. Unto hope.

Hebrews 2:5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.

Does the all the above imply that the present of the created world/system
is subject ed to Satan and his angels yet controlled to some degree relative to the called of God?

Now consider the world to come, the inhabited earth. The last sentence of Heb 2:8 But now we see not yet all things put under him.

The earth was created to be inhabited. But what man? What is man? But now we see not yet all things put under him.

I say it was created for the heir of God, see Heb 1:1-2 the man, the Son of God born of woman, yet he died. 1 Cor 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

The resurrected man, Jesus of Nazareth, is the hope, of Romans 8:20. The man to inherit all things and we can be born again in that resurrected image,

But now we see not yet all things put under him.
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee. Heb 2:9-12
Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec. Heb 5:7-10

Romans 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

That IMHO is the man and the son of man for whom the ages were made.

 

Well it has been about 2 years in the making ever since my now husband and I realized we were in different camps, me dispensational and him covenantial, and I started studying his own view to understand it better. You just were the final push. I must say the look on my husbands face when I told him was priceless as he thought we would always be in different camps since that is all I knew and had studied for the majority of my life. But I told him back when we first discovered our different camps I have always striven to make my framework match the Bible not the other way around and I'm willing to change framework if it becomes clear that the Bible does not support it.

 

Oh...so you've had a revelation? lol

The easiest way to distinguish between the two is one has death...the other does not.

But now that you're being honest, would you tell me...what do you do with the thousand years in Revelation 20?

How do you deny two resurrections clearly separated by a thousand years?

I can't get any answers from your a-millennial brethren, and I couldn't get any answers from you as a pre-millennial, so now perhaps I can get a few answered from you as an a-millennial?


God bless.

 

Wait...what does being Covenantal have to do with your position on Eschatology?

I consider myself very much Covenantal insofar as a Biblical understanding of the Covenants and the differences between them.

Is their a denominational name attached to where he fellowships? Or where he might if he doesn't attend somewhere, or has been going with you?

Outstanding.

That's how we learn.

On the contrary, all I have done is ask questions where your doctrine was ambiguous, and addressed conflicts in your statements.

Your claim to be pre-millennial was rather hollow in light of your posting.

Since I have no idea why being Covenantal would preclude a premillennial view, all I will say is that it is good for a husband and wife to be in agreement.

Not sure I would say it's good if they are in error together, but salvation is not dependent on being able to understand the Pre-Tribulation Rapture is a First Century Doctrine derived from First Century teaching.



If we have learned anything from Church History it is that man is not trustworthy and that Scripture alone holds the authority to determine doctrine.

Who are you trying to convince? lol

Look forward to you supporting an a-mil view.

You know of course this just means more questions, right?



But not to worry, I am almost at the point where I need to move on, so you will have plenty of time to perfect your doctrine. I won't expect miracles in a few days. I mean, if it took twenty years to talk yourself out of a pre-millennial view, I shouldn't expect you to change your pattern should I?


God bless.

 

The honest answer is I don't know, I just started looking into the camp. I will have to look at it and from sources that are not premillennial. Once my husband gets a new job I plan on getting some new resources.

 

I had a "friend" who decided one day he was going to become reformed. Couldn't explain why, just thought it was a great Theology System. I warned him that it was not a good idea to embrace a faith and then find out what they teach in retrospect, because for one, it is what most people do, fond a faith that best agrees with them, and two, it would likely mean that he would become exclusionary and hostile towards other Christians.

What do you think happened?

We don't proof-text our faith with Scripture, we discover our faith in it.

You know just as well as I that there are conflicts with the historical view that you are going to have to absolutely brainwash yourself to acknowledge those teachings.

Can you tell me right now with honesty that you reject a literal Return of Christ as described in Revelation, at which time every eye shall see Him?

Can you tell me honestly that you can place those events in the first century?

I don't think you can.


God bless.