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Which Confession

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Salty, Sep 1, 2021.

  1. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    What are you thoughts about these two confession
    Strengths, weakness - ect.

    1689 London Confession
    1742 Philadelphia Confession
     
  2. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Neither The New Hampshire is for me.
     
  3. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus used the 1689
     
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  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Is that one really Calvinistic though?
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Some Baptists prefer the 1644 Confession of faith!
     
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  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Why not pick the one you like and rewrite it according to scripture. As they stand, they both are as bogus as a three dollar bill.

    1. God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of
    his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as
    thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is
    violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second
    causes taken way, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all
    things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.
    (Numbers 23:19; Isaiah 46:10; John 19:11; Acts of the Apostles 4:27, Acts of the Apostles 4:28; Romans 9:15, Romans 9:18; Ephesians 1:3-5, Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5)​

    This claim of exhaustive determinism (God hath decreed...all things, whatsoever comes to pass) has no support in scripture.
     
    #6 Van, Sep 2, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2021
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  7. Mikey

    Mikey Active Member

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    I think all historic confessions have the weakness that they do not explicity deal with current controversies/heresies.
     
  8. Mikey

    Mikey Active Member

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  9. Mikey

    Mikey Active Member

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    #9 Mikey, Sep 2, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2021
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  10. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    They are exactly the same except that the Philadelphia Confession adds sections identifying hymn singing and the laying on of hands as ordinances.
     
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  11. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    II Cor 4:4
     
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  12. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Yes, it's not Arminian or General Baptist.
     
  13. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    1689 Confession:

    Chapter 10, Of Effectual Calling: Paragraphs 3 and 4, disagree.
    Chapter 11, Of Justification: Paragraph 4, Item 13, disagree.
    Chapter 23, Of Lawful Oaths and Vows: All paragraphs, disagree. Oaths are not to be sworn ( James 5:12, Matthew 5:34-37 ).

    If I had to choose a confession that is closest to what I hold to,
    I would prefer the First London Baptist Confession of 1644 / 46 over most others, but also find agreement in the simpler confessions of John Spilsbury and John Gill.
     
    #13 Dave G, Sep 6, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2021
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Did anyone find that none of the references support exhaustive determinism? OTOH, scripture clearly indicates things happen by chance and therefore were not decreed, ordained, predestined. Thus the claim (God hath decreed...all things, whatsoever comes to pass) is in direct conflict with scripture.

    1 Samuel 6:9
    “Watch, if it goes up by the way of its own territory to Beth-shemesh, then He has done us this great evil. But if not, then we will know that it was not His hand that struck us; it happened to us by chance.”

    2 Samuel 1:6
    The young man who told him said, “By chance I happened to be on Mount Gilboa, and behold, Saul was leaning on his spear. And behold, the chariots and the horsemen pursued him closely.
    Tools

    Luke10:31
    “And by chance a priest was going down on that road, and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
     
  15. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I did.
    Especially since it appears you've phrased it ( that everything that God has authority over is actively caused by Him, "exhaustively" ) that way.
    When I read the Scriptures for myself,
    I see that not only does the Lord let things happen ( the contents of Psalms 37, for example ) and then works those things together for both the good of His people ( Romans 8:28 ) and according to His will ( Ephesians 1:11 ), He can and does cause some things to happen by putting it into men's hearts to do them ( Genesis 20:6, Acts of the Apostles 4:27-28, 2 Corinthians 8:16, Revelation 17:17 ).

    For example, a man's heart devises His way, but the Lord directs His steps ( Proverbs 16:9 ),
    As well as God knowing what a person will do under a certain set of circumstances, and then working those things into His overall plans.

    In the end, I see that He has the final say and can over-rule anything that He so chooses.
    I would agree, to an extent.

    That said,
    Did you have anything in particular that you object to in either of the two confessions that @Salty has listed?

    The subject is, "Which confession?"
     
    #15 Dave G, Sep 9, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2021
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Also add the 1644 Baptist and 1835 New Hampshire!
     
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