White Males Need no Apply

Hasn't that already happened? The feminizing of men in our churches. Don't you ever wonder why so many women in the churches are doing ministry while the men watch them. Role reversal?

 

>Today the construction industry does not have enough workers.

I suppose that's why housing starts are down 50%? <G>

 

Bill, I think there is more to the construction industry than just building houses.

 

I guess we could make it a crime but then the prisons would be full of vulnerable people whose only crime is not loving equally those of another demographic. Like I said, it's easy to criticize the efforts of those doing something but there is never a solution offered. Or is the proposal to do nothing and hope for the day when everyone treats his fellowman fairly...

 

I doubt that considering the democratic party is the most diverse and racially represented party. Also, it is the GOP that is loosing demographics. They are moving to the Democratic party.

 

Housing is a small part of the whole picture. In construction typically there is; residential construction, industrial construction, highway construction, heavy construction, commercial construction, and many kinds of engineering. Construction employs people all the way from laborers to those who have a Ph.D. At this time it is mostly residential that is down. Residential typically pays way less then the others. Wages range from about $10/hr to about $400,000 per year for workers. The average of students graduating with a construction management degree start with an average of about $55,000. Seldom are any of those from other countries unless they are in construction engineering.

When I had my own business my workload increased during low times in our economy. I typically did work for rich people. When I was young I remember reading in Proverbs about the man who is skiled in his work. So I set it as my goal to get skill and be well prepared. It served me well for many years. The problem is that many do not have any goals of growing or gaining knowledge by training or going to school to gain sklills and keep up with the industry. The highly skilled will typically have work during tough times when the others do not.

 

Seems like I was told when I lived in the south that Billy Graham did more to do away with it there than anyone else.

 

The rule of thumb is that yous should be able to find a new job within a period defined by 1 month for every $10K of your previous salary. So, you've just spewed out that everyone who used to make over $120K per year "is either lazy, a drug addict or a drunk." On what do you base this conclusion?

 

From what I knew about how Graham would not let segregation come among those who came to the crusades and the people who told me were born and raised and continued to live there top this day, so yes I did believe what they told me. I do not know if he had more impact than anyone else but I do know that while I lived in south I was shocked to hear the comments and see the practices I did in some of the people I met who were in churches. I grew up around people from numerous nationalities and ethnic groups. So I had never given those things a thought. While I pastored there I never tolerated such langauage and practice. So it quickly came to a stop. In 1995 a young man told me that he had encountered a strange situation in SC while he was a youth pastor. He had led a youth to Christ and invited him to church. When the youth showed up for chruch the young man was told he could not enter the church because of the color of his skin. That is when the youth pastor left the church. The convention and local association should have come against the church but they did not. That is when I began to see things for the way they really were--lots of talk and little action.

 

The SBC does not make a practice of interferring in the churches of those who participate in it's membership: As a group, it establishes policies which are representative of the majority of its participating membership, but individual churches are considered to be independantly run and can enter or leave the convention as they choose...: When the convention feels that a matter is important enough to address and rebuke a member, it is attempted in as biblicably a process as it can..... so that doesn't mean that issues addressed will always be published for the judgement of the general public.

What I've seen of youth pastors, many of them are still in stages of maturing and developing as both emotionally and spiritually: It is not a mature decision to just up and leave a church because one person spoke unkindly to a visitor or a visitor of a different color: If anything, this problem presents an opportunity to use his leadership and ministry to direct Biblical teachings which present Christ-like behaviors and attitudes, and then increase the exposure to opportunities to carry the teachings out. Even if this was a evil practice supported by the leaders within the church, it is hard to imagine a church with the growth enough to support a youth pastor not having enough members and some leaders with in who would not be willing to encourage change. Always, if God calls.... go.... and go prepared to stay ....and go expecting there's a work to be done and that there will be discouragements and oppositions to face if one is doing a good work ...... so stay and let no man cause you to quit until God says 'it is finished'.

Well, I've lived 60 years in the south, and I've heard others talk about how bad the south is. In all of those 60 years, I have witnessed more of segregation in the first part of that time than discrimination then or since! The discrimination which I thought I witnessed, occurred less and less into the 70's and early 80's. I still hear racist talk from both sides.... and have been approached and treated racially different by black folks myself, than how they would treat another black or a asian of a person obviously other than white. I also hear racist talk from some white folks..... but it is the exception in both black and white and not the rule.

I have attended many churches, a few dominantly black and most dominantly white.... , but I have never attended a church for any time which was opposed to other races, black white or indifferent, from entering. In fact, of the white churches which I have attended, every black visitor has not only been welcomed but sincere efforts made to reach out and include them in church, ministry interest, socials. Few continue to become members and participate in the ministry: But they are remembered as members of the community and prayer request for their needs is mentioned, and they are included in concerned checks when a hurricane or other disaster takes place. I'm guessing that some do exist because you say so.... but your experience in one church doesn't mean its the custom of most in the south.

As far as racist individuals goes, there's always going to be some..... just like there are some bullies, and some self-righteous, and some hypocrites, and some Sunday only Christians....who, btw, aren't and are in need of conversion.

As for BHO's policies...... I guess we'll see how it all works out: Opinions we have plenty of now, but later we'll have definition of facts.....provided the data is accurately collected and published.

 

There ought to be standards for maintaining fellowship among churches in a convention or denomination and they should be biblical. The SBC accepts cooperative program money from churches that have clearly unbiblical practices and people in the SBC know about the practice and do nothing. Even worldy folks in the community know about it. The SBC should step in and stand against churches that have clearly unbiblical practices especially when they agree and have known about it for years. Would they let the practice in 1 Cor 5 persist? I am convinced they would and not take a stand. What fellowship does light have with darkness? Or is it that the SBC is in darkness and afraid to take a stand or do they just simply ignore the practice hoping it will go away. What did the SBC do in regards to its stance against masonry other than noise? Nothing. Was its stand useless and just full of words? Did it just make the national news with no backbone of faithful to their words? Yes. In essence their words were nothing more than just useless noise. In fact it was brought to the attention of the SBC and made public in the SBC press that the Annuity Board money was being invested in things that were clearly forbidden by scripture and the leaders justified it by saying they had no choice when they chose their particular investment strategies. When the Bible clearly says something is wrong why does the SBC stand by and watch? I pastored a church where clearly the local and state level leaders as well as the local pastors knew about the practice of inviting the Mormon bishop to preach in the SBC church. I knew because they told me. The local pastors took a stance against the church, but not the SBC did not. Doesn't that seem strange that a convention would not clean it own house before local pastors would who were outside of the convention did? There was also some other strange things being taught that were clearly not biblical. I was informed once I came by some at the state and local level and by some of the local pastors. Did I ever get a surprise when I came!

I understand your postiton and agree with you, but the case I presented was not just one person but rather the deacons who would not allow the youth to enter the building.

There are times when a staff person can have such an impact that it will squelch current practices until the new people find out or the old guard rises up with its fangs and makes noise because they see the control they once had is being lost. I have seldom seen deacons who were tested before being a deacon as the Bible admonishes. If we would stick to the Bible we would greatly diminish the problems in churches. Leaders are leaders because of those they are leading and the disciples they have made. People are not leaders just because they have a position but because they have followers.

Too many churches try to be like businesses and fail. The fact is that businesses which do the same things as a lot of churches do, fail too. Eighty percent of the new business starts in America fail within two years. Most people (pastors included) know very little about what it takes to suceed in business and think they have a handle on success and try to bring what they think works into the church when even the successful business owner knows differently. Before I pastored I had worked as one of the managers for the largest company in America in the profession I was in. I was very successful at bringing ioe of the branches around to be profitable. I did it the same way Jesus did when he made disciples. When I was in college I started a team of men initially praying that God would give me one faithful man to disciple. He did and that one person and myself were able to make a team of about 65 men by the time I graduated. When I pastored I was shocked at the lack of knowledge about business, discipleship, and churches. So many times I felt as though people thought I was just one big dummy. However there was one elderly man who recognized what was happening and recognized that I knew how to make disciples and do business. He helped me a lot and gave me a lot of encouragement. However his son failed in business even when his dad helped him to get started. Strangely the son had all the "answers" because he was on the state church growth board.

I agree. It is everywhere but it should not be in the church. What I do find is that those who are praying and reaching people are not those who are causing the trouble.

I am glad to hear your experience is great. Mine was much the same except for some isolated incidents I observed. I was a member of typically larger churches and did ministry in those churches. It was not until I started pastoring a small church that I saw some of the things I mentioned.

You are absolutely right. I have seen it among people of the same language and color of skin. Sad but too true. In the church that kind of discrimination should be addressed rather than ignored. Years ago I listened to a tape of a sermon W.A. Criswell gave and it was very well done. He mentioned that if a black youth were to come forward at the end of the sermon to receive Christ "what would you do?" He placed the responsibility on the church people. He also took a risk at that time. I had to say that I was glad to hear that. I was born in an area that supposedly has 178 different nationalities. Imagine what I think when I hear comments that are not good. at one time I worked for a black man who was a graduate of the Juilliard School of Music. His wife was also. He was one of the best men I have worked for.