Who are the Children of promise ?

You have a grasp on one truth and that is the children of promise are twice born humans whether Jew or Gentiles.

Where you fail is to see that Israel as an "ELECT" nation is throughout the scriptures personified and dealt with just as God deals with any individual "elect." Where you fail also is your understanding and interpretation of Romans 11. God is not through with ETHNIC ISRAEL and the fall of ethnic Israel is TEMPORARY and the TEMPORARY fall is for the sake of calling out the promised Children among the gentiles. However, there comes a time when all the promised children among the Gentiles will be finished (Rom. 11:25) and what God has "cut off" (ethnic Israel) will be grafted back in "AGAIN."

God has not "cut off" any of the "remnant" saved before and after the cross! Hence, none of the "remnant" are grafted in "again." God has not "cut off" any of the elect among the gentiles therefore it is not the Gentile elect that are grafted in "again." What God has cut off temporarily is the ETHNIC NATION of Israel while saving only the "remnant" elect from the time of Abraham to the time "the fulness of the gentiles" be come in or until all the promised children among the gentiles be come in (v. 25).

When the fulness of God's promised children among the Gentiles be fulfilled, then God will return to ETNIC ISRAEL which is that in the context which is cut off and graft them back in "again" and at that point in time "all Israel shall be saved" (v. 26)

Who is "all Israel" in verse 26? It is the Israel in verse 25 being contrasted to the gentiles. It is the Israel in verses 9-24 which have been "cut off" so that the promised children among the Gentiles can be saved. It is only those people on earth who have ever been called "Jacob" as no gentile elect or gentiles whatsoever have ever been called "Jacob." It is the Israel that is NOW PRESENTLY enemies of the gospel (v. 28). It is the Israel that has been PERSONIFIED in the Old Testament as "mine elect" but whose time of salvation has not yet come until after all the gentile elect be come in. It is the Israel that God gave the "covenant" unto in the Old Testament as a NATION of ethnic people.

When Jesus comes out of heavenly Zion where he now abides (Acts 3:17-19) the Israel that has formerly been cut off will be grafted back in again and they will "look upon him whom they have periced" (Rev. 1:7; Zech. 12:10) and a fountain shall be open unto them from God for their cleansing and they shall be saved all in ONE DAY - the day of Christ's coming.

You may just respond by asserting a rejection but you cannot take Romans 11 and disprove my position! I dare you to HONESTLY try!

 

He didn't say "election" was God's initiative; he said "election language simply has in view God’s initiative". That changes it from what you're reading into it.

In other words, what he's saying is that it is not hard election as such, but the language that appears as such is used to convey God as the initiator of salvation in general, rather than for specific people only (necessarily excluding all others).

I've never interpreted "all" there as "as many as you have given". God has given Christ power over all flesh. That's just the Lordship of the Son over all creation, not who will be saved, and by what process of choosing. The "as many as you have given" part is where the election debate comes into it. "All" is debated in other passages, describing God desiring to save all. I don't see what your point about "all" in this passage is.

 

I understood him perfectly. Election is not God's initiative but God's determination in saving a specific known restricted number of lost persons (Rom. 8:28-31) before the world began (Eph. 1:4; 2 Thes. 2:13).

John 17:2 and the word "all flesh" means "all flesh" and the words "as many as" are defined by the words "were given to him of the Father" thus not "all flesh" were given to him by the Father. The purpose of giving "as many as were given him" was to give eternal life - which is salvation.

The text is simple and clear and those who deny unconditional election simply do not believe the text and pervert the text. It does not say "as many as repent and believe the gospel were given to me by the Father to give eternal life." It does not say "all flesh was given to me by the Father to give eternal life to as many as repented and believed." That is what conditional electionists attempt to READ INTO this text.

 

Those passages also do not say "a specific known restricted number", nor any discussion of any hypothetical group of "not given". That has been read into there just as much as the other stuff. Both are tying to pick up on something [supposedly] being implied or inferred by the text.
So it's a matter of determining which of those interpretations is truer to the whole body of revelation, not just isolated verses here and there.

 

John 17:2; 6:36-40; 44-45 do limit a specific KIND of people from other people. For example, Jesus limits eternal life to a smaller portion of "all flesh" to only those "given him." That is a limitation and thus a restricted number that is elsewhere identified as "the elect."

Jn. 6:36 denies those he is addressing are among those in verse 37-39 who have been given to Christ by the father - thus a limited number of mankind because "ALL" the Father gives none fail to come and yet those in verse 36 DO NOT COME. "ALL" the father gives none are lost (Jn. 6:39) but in contrast all others are lost.

 

You are speaking only in half truths. Individually all true believers are children of promise. However, "true Israelites" or "true Israel" has nothing to do with gentile believers but with TWICE BORN ethnic Jews. Take a look at Romans 9:24 and you will that Paul makes a distinction between "Jews" and "gentiles" when it comes to election but your position denies such a distinction but equally views all as ISRAEL.

Romans 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 ¶ As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

It is the children of promise out of the gentiles that verses 25-26 refer to. However, verse 27-33 refers to the children of promise out of ETHNIC ISRAEL.



27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

If "Israel" in verse 27 above was your idea of "Israel" then you have only a "remnant shall be saved." Obviously, ethnic Israel is the subject not spiritual Israel. God has always had a "remnant" (children of promise) in every generation out of ETHNIC Israel. However, ETHNIC ISRAEL as a NATION shall be saved in one day according to God's promise to save "JACOB" (Rom. 9:26-28) when Christ comes from heaven.

 

Your eisegetical hodge podge of texts cannot do away with the fact that in Genesis God uses both the singular "nation" and plural "nations" in regard to the Abrahamic covenant. The promised seed comprise both and the "nation" of Israel will be saved all at once in one day as a ethnic "nation" of elect promised children (Rom. 11:25-28; Rev. 1:7).

 

You are jerking this text out of context. The context is about the status of the PHYSICAL SEED of Abraham and whether or not mere PHYSICAL birth fulfills the promise to Abraham of a SINGULAR "nation" from his loins as the promised children through Isaac! Paul is denying that PHYSICAL BIRTH alone is sufficient to make the PHYSICAL JEW a child of promise but rather the promise is fulfilled in being a TWICE BORN Jew just as Jesus told Nicodemus that there must be TWO births - ethnic physical birth as a Jew and then a second birth and so what is born of flesh is flesh (ethnic Jew) but what is born of Spirit is spirit (spiritual born Jew).

Therefore, the "nation" of promised children are comprised of Jews who are TWICE BORN (Rom. 9:5-13) IN ADDITION there are TWICE BORN gentiles of the "NATIONS" distinguished from twice born Jews (Rom. 9:24-33). The TWICE BORN gentiles fulfill the promise to Abraham concerning the "NATIONS" not the "NATION." Only TWICE BORN JEWS fulfill the promise to Abraham concerning "THE NATION" from his "own loins" as they are from his "own loins" (physical birth) as well as "born of God" - thus twice born.

God's ultimate fulfillment of this SINGULAR "nation" from the loins of Abraham and born of God or TWICE BORN Ethnic Jews is not realized in the Old Testament but yet in the future (Ezek. 36:26-27) at the precise time of Christ's return from heaven (Rom. 10:26-28) AFTER all the promised children from the PLURAL "nations" or "gentiles" have been realized (Rom. 9:25).

Your error and confusion is your failure to see that the same everlasting covenant of redemptive, same gospel, same savior, same way of salvation obtains ALL the promised Children whether they are of the "NATIONS" or those promised from "the loins" of Abraham or the singular ethnic Jewish "NATION." You erroneously conclude that since the NATIONS of promised children are redeemed according to the Abrahamic covenant then God's promise to the children of promise from the "loins of" Abraham or the elect "NATION" will not be saved but were only TYPES of the true promised children from the "NATIONS." However, this view demands that the TYPE is a failure, rejected by God and thus God failed in his promise to Abraham in regard to the singular NATION from his own "loins." That view demands the TYPE is actually to be saved through the law instead of through the covenant of Abraham but FAILS to be saved as the law cannot save anyone. Hence, your view reduces the PROMISE to Abraham to be a LIE and thus no fulfillment of salvation as a promised elect "NATION" but rather totally rejected by God for time and eternity.

It is this very view that Paul is refuting in Romans 11. In Romans 9 is clarification that the promised ethnic NATION from the literal "loins" of Abraham is not fulfilled by ONCE born ethnic Jews but is fulfilled only through TWICE BORN ethnic Jews and is not fully obtained by any "remnant" of ethnic twice born Jews but in the salvation of the whole nation at the coming of Christ (Rom. 11:1-28).

 

This text ONLY denies those ONCE BORN Jews are not the children of promise but in context asserts that TWICE BORN Jews are the substance of that promise and God will save a whole SINGULAR "nation" of TWICE BORN Jews at Christ's return (Rom. 11:25-28) according to His purpose of election and promise to Abraham to save a people from his own loins IN ADDITION to a people from all PLURAL "nations"!

You teach a half truth. You accept one half of the promise ("NATIONS") but reject the ethnic "loins" promise of a "NATION" of promised children!

 

Romans 8:28-39 demands that all of God's elect will be saved according to God's promise.

This brings up Israel and her rejection of Christ as a nation. Paul affirms that is also a Jew according to the flesh and that all the promises were given to ethnic Israel:

1 ¶ I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
There is no possible way that the above verses can be contextually applied to a SPIRITUAL Israel that is composed of Jews and Gentiles. Note the repetitive ethnic designations:

a. "my brethren
b. "my kinsmen"
c. "according to the flesh"
d. "Who are Israelites"
e. "to whom pertaineth" all the promises
f. "of whom"
g. "as concerning the flesh"

Now Paul does not jump horses at verse 6 but rather responds to the Jewish argument that God's word of promise to Abraham concerning Israelites "according to the flesh....to whom pertaineth" must have failed since the nation as a whole rejected their Messiah:


6 ¶ Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

This text must be interpreted by the preceding and foregoing context. The preceding context is ETHNIC JEWS "to whom pertaineth" the promises. The following context deals with the patriarchs of the Jews as an ethnic nation (Isaac, Jacab and Esau).

In context the phrase "they are not all Israel, which are of Israel" simply means not all ethnic born Jews that compose "all Israel" as an ethnic nation are "of Israel" the Israel just referred to in verse 5 unto "whom pertaineth" the promises and the Israel in verse 5 are ETHNIC ISRAEL as a nation. He explains what he means in verses 7-8. The promises to ETHNIC ISRAEL pertains only to TWICE BORN ethnic Jews and not to those born merely "according to the flesh."

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.


Again he limits the discussion to only ETHNIC JEWS or those who "are the seed of Abraham" through natural birth. He therefore is not entertaining gentiles at all but those "because they are" the seed of Abraham and what gives them the right to the promises in verse 5. Not all ethinic Jews qualify for those promises as he goes on to prove.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The "children" of Abraham which are only children by natural birth alone or "of the flesh" "are not the children of God." The ethnic Jews "unto whom pertaineth" the promises in verse 5 are those "children" SUPERNATURALLY born according to "promise" as in the case of the birth of Isaac. Isaac's birth was due to God's promise rather than to Abraham and Sarah reproducing them by purely natural means. However, Isaac was born according to the flesh or through physical parents but in addition to that natural birth there was a SUPERNATURAL birth. This is the same message Jesus tells the ethnic Jew Nicodemus (Jn. 3:3-6).

Now, he defines what he means "the word of promise"

9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

The birth of Isaac was purely due to the promise and power of God (Jn. 1:13) as in the case of Isaac AND it was according to God's eternal purpose of election by grace as in the case of Jacob over Esau.

This is the context of Romans 9:7 and the above is a correct contextual development of the passage.

 

My exposition of Romans 9:1-8 below proves that you jerked Romans 9:8 out of its context.

I dare you or anyone else on this forum to demonstrate where my exposition is in error. Put up or shut up!

All you can do is proof text - you are incapable of demonstrating that your proof text harmonizes with the developmental context in which it is found.

Any cult can do you what are doing. However, the truth is ALWAYS established by context and context alone. You have jerked Romans 9:8 out of context and it is obvious to anyone reading this thread.

It is obvious because you cannot respond except for making UNFOUNDED accustations.