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Who Decides

Discussion in 'Other Discussions' started by Salty, Nov 23, 2022 at 7:09 PM.

  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I agree. We do not judge those outside the congregation but those within. This is where preaching about sin comes in.
     
  2. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    It’s not a one size fits all world. We don’t have to be unnecessarily offensive, but some people will try to take offense regardless.

    When evil is being called good, and good, evil, then Christians must take exception. Christians cannot afford to accommodate evil.
     
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  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I agree that Christians cannot accommodate sin in their lives or congregation.

    What concerns me are Christians that are shocked that the World, which is at odds with God, tolerates sin.

    For some reason it seems Christians do not want to be a light in the world, but are satisfied with trying to make the world look brighter than it is in reality.
     
  4. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I don't agree that The Bible tells us that. I know what your Scriptural response will be. Jesus taught Sin to those outside.
     
  5. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    It all depends on what you consider judging to be.
     
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Obviously the user of the word or phrase decides whether it is acceptable to use to communicate his or her idea. The word police, like the thought police, are the enemies of freedom and the advocates of slavery.

    If I do not want to hear the expressions of Slavery advocates, I do not listen to them.
     
  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    My response would be that Scripture tells us not to judge those outside the congregation, but to judge those in our congregations.

    Not sure how we can get around that.

    Jesus did not preach sin to people. He did explain that the consequences of sin. But He did not preach against homosexuality, murder, hatred, theft, etc.

    That said, if you believe I oveooked a sermon of Christ where He preaches sin then by all means provide the passage.
     
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Judging (in the context of the passage) is preaching condemnation. We see this in John 3 (that Jesus did not come to judge the world, that the world has already been judged). We also see this in Paul's reasons why he doesn't preach sin to those outside of the congregation.

    We see this in Paul's sermon to the pagans in Athens. He does not condemn their idolatry but uses their sin to show them the gospel. Yet He condemns idolatry in his epistles to Christians.
     
  9. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Active Member

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    Doesn't Jesus preach against sin in the sermon on the mount? Sexual sin, murder, not harming others are elevated to a higher level and standard if anything. But it seems like most of Jesus's general audience was Jewish or Samaritan who at least were on board with basic 10 commandment type of morality. Peter's first sermon it is said were to "devout Jews" or proselytes who had traveled long distances to worship. Preaching to pagans was different and in Galatians chapter 5 and 6 show this. What I don't see was a serious movement to bring homosexuality into Jewish and early Christian circles and claim that was supposed to be OK. Homosexuality in those times was called by Jews "that sin which cannot be mentioned". For Greeks and Romans it was completely imbedded into the culture and it did not even spare children. Early Christian morality of avoiding fornication and having one wife was RADICAL.

    Now, if you want to make the case that preaching should be confined to "Christ and Him crucified" and leave the rest to the Holy Spirit until later - well, maybe you have a point.
     
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I'd say no.

    The reason is that while Christ shows us sin (which is necessary) He is actually preaching the Kingdom of God.

    He equates being angry at a person to murder.
    He equates lusting to adultery.

    It goes from the act to the heart, showing us we all have earned the wages of sin.

    Then He tells us to love our enemies.
    He tells us mot to resist the evil person.
    To turn the cheek.
    To give not only what is demanded but even more.
    To pray for and love those who would harm us.


    What I am getting at is that Christ came not to judge the world but to save the world.

    That is perhaps why there are no sermons recorded in the Bible of Jesus preaching sin. We love those old hell fire and damnation sermons, mostly because they do not apply to us. We are just looking at what we escape in Christ.
     
  11. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    When Jesus preached to the rich young ruler, He HE preached the sin of loving money above God.
    Jesus preached the sin of hypocrisy regularly to the Pharisees. Jesus confronted the sin of sexual immorality with the woman at the well and the woman being stoned.
    I think you confuse what judging sin outside the church is. Preaching against sin and confronting sin in society is not judging sin. It is proclaiming truth.
     
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  12. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    The judgment mentioned in that passage was reference to the final judgment. Jesus did not come to immediately bring about His final judgment, but to usher in the days of grace.

    Paul's appeal in logic to the Greeks was the only unsuccessful "sermon" we have recorded in Scripture.
     
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No, He didn't. Read the passage again.

    When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was very wealthy.

    I am not saying we never mention sin.

    I am saying that we are to share the gospel with the world, not go around condemning them for sin.

    There are evil people in this world. Some wear the facade of Christianity. Westboro "church" is an example. There are some who would delight that people at the LGBTQ club were murdered. Although claimimg Christ these are evil people who need the gospel of Jesus Christ.

    But we don't go out and preach sin, the hatred of those people. Instead we share the gospel.

    We point that they have sin, if they don't acknowledge it, and point to Christ.
     
  14. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Jesus most definitely hit him square in the face with his sin. The ruler said he had kept the entire law. Jesus said sell all that you have and follow me. Jesus slapped him in the face with the fact that he loved his possessions more than he loved God so he had broken the most important law.
     
  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No. The final judgment is given to Christ.

    Jesus says that He came not to judge the world but to save the world. He says that the world is already condemned.

    It is impossible that the passage speaks of the final judgment. Read it again (not the verse but the passage).

    Paul's preaching in Athens was successful. Many did believe.

    Now, I know that you ate going to hate this part because it goes against everything you have recently claimed to believe. Here it is anyway:

    1 Corinthians 5:9–13 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world.
    But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.
     
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No. Jesus told him what to do. The man wouldn't because it would mean giving up what he most valued.

    It is not a sin to be wealthy. But the man was unwilling to give away his wealth.

    The man brought up sin. Jesus showed the man his heart.
     
  17. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Websters
     
  18. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    What do you base the statement of success on?

    The passage is not saying to not preach against sin. It is not saying to not preach repentance to the world.
     
  19. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    His sin was not wealth. His sin was loving His wealth more than he loved God. Not too hard to figure out.
     
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I base it on Scripture. Some believed. Among them were Dionysius the Areopagite and a woman named Damaris.

    If your criteria for success is everybody, orveven most, who heard the sermon would believe then you take Jesus' words as a colossal failure.

    Christians are to be a light in a dark world. We are to preach repentance from the World to God (tge ministry of reconciliation....urge men to be reconciled to God). This means turning from sinfulness, dying to ourselves.

    The problem is your posts seem to advocate hate (which Jesus equated with murder).
     
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