Who Does The Pope Think That He Is??

I don't believe that anybody seriously thinks the Pope thought that he was Jesus. A reading of his various encyclicals would probably clear up the matter one way or the other.

 

Tam
You are experiencing culture shock. He was a Polish, Roman Catholic, football playing experimental theatre actor and he was the pope as well. Ofcourse he reacted differently from what you would have done.

When somebody put's a price on your head you would be shocked and probably frightened, JPII calmly complained that he thought the price was somewhat low.

 

I thinks he can do more after he is dead than before - the real problem is that Mary seems to be doing quite a bit of "appearing" and "talking" after her death as well.

The postmortem JPII may very well be more active and "of a different temperment" then the real one was.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Havent we heard that somewhere before?

"If you strike me down Darth - I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine".

 

You people have officially ceased to amaze me.

 

I blame my daughter for that last one. She read the post by Tamborine Lady and just blurted out that line from Star Wars.

Bad Shelly - bad!

 

I blame a complete lack of respect for anyone or anything "different."

 

"If he called on Mary, then he must have thought that she could save his life!!"

He did, by the way, in fact survive the attack.

Just thinking out loud...

 

QED?

 

QED? </font>[/QUOTE]This logic seems to work well in other matters, i just thought turning it back might have the frightful-yet-happy consequence of making a few of us think.

I don't subscribe to Marian theology, yet this absolute disgust for all things Catholic which runs rampant and is even encouraged by mods and admins makes my head hurt.

It seems to me that if we Protestants imagine somehow that our particular denomination emerged from thin air, carried by an angel on the head of a pin or some such, then there's no reason to look to history as a teacher, and no reason to look to history at all. Yet if we have a more rational view of history, we will find that we Protestants can learn much mroe from the RCC than we'd like to admit.

We are, though, much less effective apart than together, so if the Pope is indeed Satan, as some appear to think he is, then he's really happy at how divided we are over everything - not just this - but EVERYTHING.

Sad.

 

The Catholics believe that when Jesus gave His mother to his beloved disciple, he was also giving her to the whole human race to be their spiritual mother. Afterall, Eve is the mother of humanity. Mary is the Mother of all those who believe in her son.

Catholics also believe that Mary is in Heaven body and soul. Rev. 12 speaks of the Queen of Heaven and the child referenced in Rev. 12 is Jesus, so the mother is Mary.

Also, Jesus is the promise that the house of David would continue forever. Who are the Queens in the line of David's descendants? It is not the wife, but the mother of the king.

Catholics believe that Mother Mary will offer prayers for them. So, JPII believed that Mary would offer her prayers to her Divine Son on behalf of her Son's earthly servant.

In all the true Marian Apparitions, she encourages people to serve Jesus more and to pray for the conversion sinners.

 

I think it's a mistake to ignore the example of Mary given in Scripture. I won't go so far as these beliefs you've shared, Living, but I appreciate you posting them as an example of how Catholics are most certainly not worshipping Mary.

I'vce always interpreted the Queen in Revelation as giving birth to the Church (this is a predictably Protestant interpretation), and understood that the Bride of Christ will be the Queen of Heaven. I will not go so far at any point as to say that, because my understanding of Scripture and theology differs, mine is the only possible "right" interpretation and practice.

Anglicans, when they pray their Rosaries, have changed the "Hail Mary" and directed the prayer to Jesus. This is more in line with the Protestant understanding of Christ as Mediator.

"Hail Mary, full of grace, blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Lord Jesus Christ, pray for us now and in the hour of our death."

I wish that Protestant theology would somehow be able to recapture some of the awe, peace, and majesty of the Mass.

 

I think the thought of "he could do more for them in heaven than he could on earth" is referring to the fact that the saints that are gone before us are there interceeding for the saints on earth (Rev 6). At least that is what it sounds like to me.

I think it is sad the over emphasis on Mary as some sort of super saint however and is one of the main problems with RCC theology.

 

In Rev 6 there are no saints mentioned - but we do have "souls huddled under the altar" that were "killed".
(Lets call them "saints")

Notice the "help" they offer for "those who dwell on the earth"??

Notice the "results" they get??

Ok so now "the details".

1. What "specific" help were they asking "for those who dwell on the earth"??

2. What "resulted" from their petition? They were told to "what"? Until "What happened"??

And that is called "MORE help"???


In Christ,

Bob

 

Bob, all I am pointing out is that saints in Heaven pray. Rev. 5 also shows the elders (Whom I believe represent the saints in Heaven) "holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (vs.8)

We are however not to pray to them as Roman Catholicism teaches but just like you and I pray here on earth, so do the saints in Heaven. I am not defending the Pope's statements but just pointing out that is what he probably meant. Though I am not sure.

 

#1. Eve is the mother of humanity. That "seems important" and "oh my" God did remember to get that into the Bible!

#2. Jesus was raised from the dead. That "seems important". And Wow! That made it into the Bible as well!

#3. Jarius' daughter was raised from the dead -- that does not seem "as important" - but STILL it was enough to get into the Bible. The NT authors were faithful to let us know that important detail!

#4. Abraham is the father of the Faithful (Rom 4). That "seems important". And WOW AGAIN! The NT authors must have thought so too - because there it is RIGHT in the Bible!!

--------------------------------

Mary Queen of universe. ( you would think that would make honorable mention if nothing else).

Mary - Mother of all the faithful. (Surely they could have dedicted a half-sentance to mentioning that little detail).

Mary - sinless like Christ. (oops they never did get around to saying that in all the "hail Mary full of Grace" and talking about whether the wine came from water or not - they never got around to "Mary sinless like Christ". Maybe they were just tired to mention such a huge idea).

Mary - raised from the dead and assumed into heaven!. WOW there is a "detail for you"! Sure seems like a good thing to mention. Surely they could add it along with "Hey Timothy don't forget to bring my coat when you come".

And what is REALLY facinating is that those who REALLY DO believe those marian myths DO mention it as much or MORE than ALL of those other things COMBINED!!

Just look at the Pope - praying to Mary instead of Christ. It was HIGH on HIS LIST!!

It GETS MENTIONED when the people REALLY believe IT!

So it's absence is .... "instructive".

BTW - you may look until the sun goes down - there is no words IN the text of Rev 12 that "Actually SAY" -- "Queen of HEAVEN".

Rather we see a WOMAN (pure church)appeared in heaven (BEFORE the birth of Christ) clothed with the Sun, standing on the moon and on her head - twelve stars.

The dragon is at the birth ready to devore as soon as the Baby is born.

All this is figurative. The woman is the church of God in ALL Ages - starting at a time before the cross.

The dragon is really Satan. (There is no Dragon of the Universe title).

These are SIGNS. Not a fact that Mary was in heaven prior to the Birth of Christ OR that Mary ran into the wilderness perecuted by the dragon for 1260 years.

IF that "Sign" Were at all "literal" as some are hoping - then the dragon would have been well advised to simply eat the lady AND the child instead of trying to spare the lady and just eat the child.

 

This is exactly why Christians need to consider why it is that Satan wanted his wish (and got it) in getting Protestants to adopt the false doctrine that the dead are either in heaven or hell right now instead of in their graves till Jesus comes, like the Bible says.

it makes it so much easier to make people think they can pray to "dead saints" and think they actually can listen and answer their prayers. Mary is in the grave


go read about this:
http://www.steps2life.org/library/dvierra/virgin_1.htm


--------
Claudia Thompson
http://www.religiouscounterfeits.org
http://www.christiangraphics.org
http://www.countrymanordesigns.com

 

Bob,

I really don't appreciate your sarcasm. Nor do I see what makes you such an authority on theology. I have showed you how Catholics use scriptural corelation.

The Catholics see the woman as Mary and also as the church

Now you are just being ridiculous. Christ was sinless because He is God and He is Divine. Mary was sinless not on her own but because God created her that way and kept her that way by HIS GRACE. God created another female sinless - EVE But, she rejected God's grace given to her.

No one said that Mary was raised from the dead. It is said that after she died, she was assumed body and soul into Heaven. Who are you to say that Jesus who is in Heaven in His glorified body wouldn't do the same for His mother?

You have physical proof of this? No one has every claimed having the bones of Mary. All other saint's bones are considered somewhat sacred by the Church and most (if not all) are buried in the different Cathedrals.

(edited only for misspelled word that came out 'ugly' )

[ April 05, 2005, 09:28 PM: Message edited by: dianetavegia ]