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Who is a Christian?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by El_Guero, Oct 28, 2006.

  1. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    Of all the possible interpretations that you could come up with for that scripture, why do you pick the one that contradicts Romans 4:5?

    Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

    Faith is not works.
     
  2. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    See the word "should"? "Walk" is subjunctive. There's the probability of failure there.

    This entire passage is about justification, not spiritual salvation.

    You say this, and then put the requirement that if we are saved we will have all these good works and prove it, and if we don't, then we were never saved. Your own words state this idea, over and over and over again!

    Works are works are works, whether you claim that you have to have them to get saved, to stay saved, or to prove that you're saved! Even if you backload them into your salvation equation, they're still works!

    We should walk in newness of life. There is no guarantee that any saved person will. There's no guarantee that a saved person will continue to walk the walk that he should once he starts, either.

    But, that walk is not to prove that we're saved; that walk is because we want to be faithful.
     
  3. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    Yep, and that's how we ought to walk after we're saved.
     
  4. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    I thought we were separating it from "saved".
     
  5. tragic_pizza

    tragic_pizza New Member

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    I think this thread thus far is evidence of many things wrong with the label of "Christian" today. Sure, we might want to insist that "Christian" means "follower of Christ;" and etymologically, we'd be correct.

    However, thanks to extremists on both sides of any debate within the Church as a whole, be it the Religious Right or the Jesus Seminar, we have abdicated the right to define ourselves. Society defines us, and the label "Christian" means many things - not all of them good.

    El_Guero would likely argue that I am not a Christian by his definition, because I am not conservative enough. Others might say that his interpretation of Scripture is too legalistic, and thus borders on idolatry.

    To be clear, I think no such thing.

    Rather, I think that the time has come to forget about who else may or may not be a Christian, and to concern ourselves with the work of God. God brings into our lives those that God desires to, and we miniser to them through our unique gifts - healing, evangelism, mercy, mentoring, whatever the case may be.

    Too, dismissing someone who has prayed the rote prayer but hasn't sufficiently changed for our own tastes is a bit presumptuous, since we all grow in the faith (Reformed theology calls this process "sanctification," by the way) at different speeds and in different ways.

    Wo is a Christian? Read the Scriptures, look in the mirror, ask the question. Then, if sufficiently satisfied with the answer, go and serve. God will take care of who else is a Christian, I think...
     
  6. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    Not only can you, but you will. If you say that you have no sin, you make him a liar.
     
  7. Linda64

    Linda64 New Member

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    Amen Amy!! Here is a verse that goes along with that:

    Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. (John 14:23)

     
  8. Daisy

    Daisy New Member

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    Is it possible for a Christian to commit an evil act and still be a Christian?
     
  9. dispen4ever

    dispen4ever New Member

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    Thank God for Amy and Linda! :applause:
     
  10. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    Certainly. We're told that we're going to. But, that's not a license to sin; it's not permission. An example would be if you were to go 150 MPH in your car on the highway: You obviously can do it, but you don't have permission to do it.

    Not only is it possible for a saved person to commit sin, but we're given long lists of sins that saved people can and do commit: Adultery, murder, idolatry, and on and on. A saved person can commit every sin in the book.

    Thankfully, contrary to what Linda teaches, our spiritual salvation is not dependent upon our works. If it were, we would always have to be in fear that we are not above that magic line of good works above which you're really, really, really, really saved.

    Our only criteria to be saved is "believe", and that "believe" is in the aorist which means it's a simple mental assent that Jesus did what he did for me, with absolutely nothing else added in!

    What must I do to be saved? Believe on the Lord Jesus plus nothing!
     
  11. Not_hard_to_find

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    Most assuredly!
     
  12. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    Notice Paul said but believe. You guys are the ones teaching works for salvation, I believe salvation is by faith. But I'm glad you did notice Paul said even if you don't work, as long as you believe your salvation may be rewardless but God is faithful to his word.
     
  13. Not_hard_to_find

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    As an afterthought, it is also possible for a non-Christian to live a giving, loving life of service to the god they worship and without Christ remain eternally lost.
     
  14. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
    21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
    22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
    23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
    24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
    25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

    Do you know what it means to be justified? Yes, I have SINNED (past tense) but I am no longer under the law (see below) which is the knowledge of sin (see verse 20)

    13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
     
  15. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Of course depends on what you are calling evil but I for one do not believe that a man who is filled with the Holy Ghost can take the Holy Ghost with him to commit an evil act. Also, I don't believe a man who body is the temple of God can commit an evil act and put the temple of God to open shame. There is a sin unto death and the Lord said not to even pray for him. Too much world in the church today. Afraid some are going to come up short. I say, make it as sure as you can for you only pass this way but once. Let others do as they may but for me and my house we shall serve the Lord, amen. Scripture plainly and most suredly says there will be no LIARS in Heaven, so speak for yourself.
     
    #35 Brother Bob, Oct 28, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2006
  16. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    If it is likely that I would argue that you are not a Christian, then you do not proclaim faith in Jesus Christ and you violate His commandment:
     
  17. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    Daisy

    Good question:

    I assume that you are differentiating, like I would as well, between sin and evil. Very doubtful . . . If we are believers then we must keep His commandments. And if we are committing evil, then we are probably not keeping His commandments.

     
    #37 El_Guero, Oct 28, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2006
  18. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    They sure took up the slack for me today . . .

    Thanks, Ladies!

     
  19. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    Friend,

    Linda and Amy G are the only ones in this thread trying to place a works requirement on spiritual salvation, with the apparent approval of dispen.
     
  20. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    Friend

    With all of this discord over accepting fellow believers and their salvation it is no wonder that satan has had the opportunity to turn most of the world to his religions. IMHO.

    Can't we agree that those called Christians should have a saving faith in Jesus Christ, the image in flesh of God the Father?

    Can we agree?
     
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