Who is a Christian?

I have never said such a thing. Our works are evidence of our salvation are they not? If I say I love my husband, won't I naturally do things that please him? If I love my Lord and Savior, won't I naturally do things that please Him? And if I'm not willing to please the one I love, did I really ever love him in the first place? Jesus saved me while I was YET a sinner! I did nothing. But my works are evidence of the Holy Spirit within me, who was given to me at the moment I gave my heart to Christ. I do not believe in works salvation. We can do nothing apart from Christ. John 15:5

 

Like Amy, I never have said that salvation is based on works. Amy and I are in agreement--works (and it isn't OUR works, it is HIS{Christ's} works in us) that are the EVIDENCE of our salvation. NOBODY on this thread teaches works salvation--NOBODY! Please don't confuse JUSTIFICATION (our imputed righteousness--which never changes), with HOLY LIVING (works which are done through the power of the Holy Spirit)

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:10)

If anyone teaches works salvation (or dualism of salvation), it is those who believe that there will be many believers who will be cast into "outer darkness" and miss the Millennial Kingdom because they did not "measure up"--in other words, they did not "overcome" while living here on the earth and they need to be "purged" for 1,000 years so they can enter eternity with God.

Your walk talks, and your talk walks; but your walk talks farther than your talk walks!! In other words, if you are going to talk the talk (of a born again believer), you should be walking that same walk---walk matches talk---and that, my friends, IS NOT WORKS SALVATION.

 

Amen El Guero and thanks to you Linda!
Blessings! :1_grouphug: :godisgood:

 

Plus nothing, contrary to what the ladies are suggesting.

Funny thing is, this is what I'm saying, the ladies are adding works to the mixture, and yet you're accusing me of it.

 

What if you don't love your husband? Is he any less your husband?

The problem is, you're saying that good works prove that we're saved.

The Bible says no such thing. It says that our works should show it.

Big difference.

We are saved by "believe". We admit that we need saving, and we accept the gift that has been offered to us, based upon the finished work of Jesus on the cross.

Believe and you will be saved. No if's, and's, or but's.

Suppose you resent the need? Suppose you begin to doubt?

Do you think your works will make you unsaved?

Just like a baby, you cannot be unborn.

 

I disagree. Matthew 7:20 says "Similarly, you will know people by the deeds they do” (NBV). See also below.

I believe we need to put the Bible meaning to the Bible term "believe." Galatians 5:6 “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, |but only | the kind of faith that works through love” (NASB|ESV|ICB).

IF we believe the way the Bible means "believe" in salvation contexts, there must be works that are motivated by what we believe. We are saved by this faith without doing anything per Romans 4:5, but if we do not live like we `believe' then we do not really believe per James 2:14-26. The Bible defines what Christian faith is.

 

Oh, really? Then, we need to delete some passages from our Bibles to take care of the contradictions to this statement. The prime one that comes to mind is Acts 16:30-31; the only place in the Bible in which the question is both asked and answered, "What must I do to be saved?"

Know what the answer is? "Believe." Plus nothing else. And, it's believe in the aorist, which is simply a mental assent, and not some sort of deep abiding faith that will be proved by works, etc.

It doesn't say, "Believe, and keep on believing, and prove it by your good works, or you never really, really, really believed in the first place."

"Believe."

Believe and you will be saved. "Will be saved" is indicative. It will happen. If there were any doubts, it would be optative or subjunctive.

Tell me, what happens when someone quits believing?

 

You left out a relevant portion of my post which would have indicated that I am in complete agreement with you on Acts 16:30-4; please re-read it. Do you mean "believe" as Americans think of it, which is intellectual assent, or as the Bible means it? I believe we need to put the Bible meaning to the Bible term "believe." Galatians 5:6 “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, |but only | the kind of faith that works through love” (NASB|ESV|ICB).

Acts 16:31a says “‘Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved’” (NBV, NLT) -- we have to believe that Jesus is Lord enough to act accordingly. That faith saves us before we do a single follow-up work, but it still has to be that kind of faith.

If we are going to discuss `deleting' passages, what do you do about Matthew 7:20-1 and Matthew 25:31-46? The Lord Jesus Christ expects our faith in Him as Lord to have born fruit = good deeds on His behalf. However, I do not believe you desire to alter Scripture.

They do not quit believing. 1 John 2:19 indicates that if anyone `leaves' the Christian community, they were never part of it to begin with.