Who is Bob Jones

From what I know Bob Jones was an evangelist who started sometime like 1915 or something. He went on to found Bob Jones University. (www.bju.edu)

I'll leave my opinion to the side, the site should give you a fair idea of the man by the legacy he has left behind.

 

I have a set og golf clubs signed by Bob Jones Jr.

Yes, the Bob Jones mentioned and his son, Bob Jones Jr, were evangelists and the senior founded Bob Jones University, the first school Bill Graham attended and was all but expelled for holding hands on campus with Ruth, who would later become his wife.

I know some fine people who have graduated from Bob Jones, and I can't find fault with the school except that it seems to be ultra-conservative,,,in funnymentalist ways.

Cheers,

Jim

 

BJU, (Blacks Just Unworthy), and Bob Jones III are racists and they support thugs like Ian Paisley. It's probably just better to stay away from them altogether.

Mike

[ October 20, 2002, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: Smoke_Eater ]

 

In his autobiography, Just As I Am, Rev Billy says he was expelled for a classroom run in with Bob Jones, which automatically jacks his credibility up about twenty points with me for telling that old fascist off.

Mike

[ October 20, 2002, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: Smoke_Eater ]

 

Thanks,

I guess the stories get jerked around as they are repeated. I think I heard mine about 67000th in line.

Now Ian Paisley I do know quite well and even sat under his tutelege in the late 50's.To class him with the likes of Carl McIntyre is one thing, but to call him a thug is not to understand the delicate situation in Northern Ireland, and I really don't care to go there.

Cheers,

Jim

 

I do understand it. That's how I know what a thug he is.

I don't know who Carl McIntyre is, but I can't imagine that he did something awful enough be in the same (low) class as Paisley.

Mike

 

I don't know Bob Jones personally nor much about the man himself.

I do know several graduates from BJU. Their testimonies have been great. They do tend to be very conservative and sometimes wander over into legalism. One preacher put it like this, "If sin is falling over the edge of a cliff, is someone safer walking 50 feet back from the edge or getting as close to the edge as possible? Eventually walking close to the edge you fall."

I have never met one that was racist. The only church I have belonged to with a black-white mixed marriage was pastored by a BJU grad. They weren't judged or treated differently by anyone to the best of my knowledge. Further, they have sent hundreds if not thousands of missionaries into various parts of the world to evangelize people of all races.

I don't know what bones Smoke_Eater has to pick but I think he is being too condemning. BJ and BJU are not perfect but in the words of the Waterboy, they aren't the Devil either.

BJU's interracial dating policies were left over from the '50's. BJ III said on Larry King that the issue simply had not come up or been considered for enforcement. Since folks that send their kids there don't tend to be on the cutting edge of societal evolution, his words are believable.

 

Why do you say Ian Paisley is a thug?

 

I would be very interested to know page you found this on. If you could please document it, it would be very nice of you.

The confrontation you probably refer to was not Billy's but Wendell Phillips, his roommates. It surrounded Graham and Phillips leaving Cleveland to go to school in Florida. Graham sat by saying nothing according to Phillips. Even after that, Graham and the Jones' were friends.

Graham has an honorary degree from BJU (1948) and Northwestern conferred an honorary degree on Bob Jr when Graham was president there (1949).

Those who know, know that Bob Jones Jr preached one of the services in Graham's Los Angeles crusade in 1949 at Graham's invitation after he had lost his voice. Graham also had a Columbia SC crusade in 1950 that was openly supported by BJU, BJJr and BJSr. Jr. was unable to attend because of sickness and Graham invited Sr to preach one message at the crusade but Sr declined. Instaed, Graham introduced Sr and Sr spoke for about 10 minutes. Just after that, Graham, in a series of one day meetings, scheduled one for Greenville that was supposed to be in Sirrine stadium and Graham was invited to speak at the chapel service at BJU. The stadium service was rained out and Jr made the university's auditorium available and the meeting was held there.

Graham held Sr. in high regard and he and Sr frequently corresponded. Graham looked to Sr for advice about ministry and his crusades. The Joneses and Graham were friends until the mid to late '50s when Graham began to have liberals and apostates in his crusades. Even then, both jr and sr appealed to him as a brother to stop. His refusal led the Jones's to feel the necessity to separate over doctrinal issues of what they considered were apostate doctrine and obedience to the truth.

Jones Sr and Jr were both a part of the formation of the National Association of Evangelicals along with Graham and JR was in fact a vice president of the organization if my memory serves me correctly.

I say all to say this: The relationship between Graham and the Jones's was not one of animosity as Mike describes it here. It was one of early friendship and later, principled separation. Mike's axe to grind (whatever it is) has led him to say some things that aren't supported by the facts.

 

I'm sorry, I took the book back to the library a long time ago and I have no way to see what page it's on, but I would encourage anyone who wants to to read the book for themselves.

Based on having read the book, I believe they are.

If what you say is true, then I will have lost a great deal of respect for Graham and will have to reevaluate eaglewings' claims that he may be a racist.

Mike

 

Sorry. That should read, "Mr. Thug".

 

Based on his relationship with certain loyalist groups, his treatment of Catholics, his efforts to derail the GFA and his opposition to policing reforms.

Mike

[ October 23, 2002, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: Smoke_Eater ]

 

I have read most of it. That's why I ask what page it is on. The facts I have given are documented historical facts. Surely if you make such a statement you have some proof it. Go back to the library, check out the book and find it for us, if you don't mind. That way you can maintain your credibility here.

In his book, Graham states that he left BJU over the tightness of the rules. Incidentally, an interview reveals that he now does not even enter a hotel room by himself for fear that some unjust accusation might be made by someone who wants to trip him up and call his integrity into question. It was an interesting contradiction in philosophy that shows the older Graham has more insight than the younger Graham did. He left BJU over rules that were less strict than the ones he now employs on his own initiative.

It is true. The letters, newspaper articles, stories, etc are all documented. However, that proves nothing about racism, just as your accusations don't. Racism is a cheap claim. It is easy to make and when there is no accountability for it, it simple fuels the fire. Again, whatever your axe to grind is, your lack of documentation calls into question your credibility.

 

Honestly? It's just not that big a deal to me. I get the feeling some of you guys don't think much of me anyway, so, except for a handful of people here, whether or not you think I have credilbility isn't really that big a deal to me.

If I'm wrong, then I apologize, but I don't think I am.

I do admit that it's been a very long time since I read the book and it's not impossible that he may have just been suspended or something, but I don't think so.

Maybe this newfound wisdom is what led him to break ties with Bob Jones

Excuse me, but I never claimed that Graham was a racist.

However, BJU's policy against whites dating blacks is well known.

Mike

 

He left voluntarily to go to school in Florida.

It was the Joneses who broke ties with him, not the other way around.

It does not exist.

 

Well, there you go.

See above.

Actually, up until very recently in the school's hitory, it did but was dropped in response to national outrage as a result of the 2000 presidential campaign.

In all fairness to BoJoIII, he explained on the Larry King (03/03/00) show that the school didn't condemn interracial dating because of black/white issues per se, but because they were afraid that, somehow, whites dating blacks would somehow bring about the rise of the Antichrist.

Before, he was a racist. Now he just sounds like a nut.

http://www-stu.calvin.edu/chimes/000310/nation_01.htm

Something I didn't know, according to the Deseret News (03/05/00), BJU didn't even admit black students until the 70's.

Mike

[ October 23, 2002, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: Smoke_Eater ]

 

This is a patently dishonest portrayal of what he said.

Assumes facts not in evidence and denies points of fact presented.

Maybe... but definitely a nut concerned about his credibility.

Yeah... they were just a few years behind many publicly funded schools. I am not saying it was right just that judging history by today's paradigm is more than a little unfair. Turn the tables. They could rightly look at us and condemn the rampant illegitimacy rate couldn't they? Or maybe 2 million+ annual abortion rate...

By the standards of 30 years ago, we are barbaric.

Do note however that by your statements the rule against inter-racial dating pre-dates the admission of blacks by about two decades. Aren't you being a little revisionists by suggesting that blacks were the target of this 'racism'?