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WHO told you that you were naked?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Star, Jun 27, 2002.

  1. ken1burton

    ken1burton Guest

    God told Isaiah to do a strip and walk naked for three years. Naked here is not for sin, but for being seen as you really are.

    The naked for three years was for a sign to Israel. Jesus ministered for three years. He did not put on any false disguises. He walked Naked.

    Notice you do not stop being naked, But just that the SHAME of your nakedness does not appear. Or you are not ashamed to let people see you as you really are.

    Showing yourself to be kind often sets you up as a prey. Showing emotion like Jesus weeping might be taken as a weakness. as men do not cry. (Goodness, we don't want that to show. [​IMG]

    Jesus is Adam the day of the cross. Alive 930 of the day as 1,000 years. and dead or desolate 70 as Jerusalem. Taking sin resulted in all the Curses also falling upon Jesus.

    Jesus was sent unto the Lost sheep of the House of Israel. Jesus is reaching for others, He wants a bigger barn, Not just the house of Israel. He speaks to the Woman at the well. He enters into the Town of the Samaritians, His nakedness is Showing.

    His love for others can not keep itself from showing.

    Look at a loving Jesus, see His nakedness, and don't be surprised if others see your. What have we to be ashamed of? That we care, that others mean something to us and that we hurt for them.

    The day of the cross is a day taken out of time. It is the Birth of the Body of Christ seen in Psalms 2:6/7. This day is cursed and perishes in Job 3:3/6. The day taken out of time breaks the covenant with the Priesthood.

    Destroy this temple (Priesthood) and in three days I will raise another.

    The day of the cross is "FOR EVER", Jesus has to die the day of the cross to fulfill Scripture. So He can not eat of the tree of Life (not allow Himself to die) and LIVE "FOR EVER".

    The first picture of the day of the cross seen as three pictures is as 4 6-hour periods. it is the Garden of Eden, as a river divided into 4 heads.

    Taking the day of the cross out of time makes a end of the Old World and a Beginning of the new world. The Old world had no beginning, and the New World has no end.

    Jesus the day of the cross is as God, He can save Himself or mankind. Jesus or hell was one man's choice, Thank God, Jesus choose hell.

    So from "EVERLASTING PAST" before the day of the cross, To "EVERLASTING FUTURE" After the day of the Cross, Jesus is AS GOD.

    (PSALMS 90:2) Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. (KJV)

    This is the NEW WORLD. This has a beginning. The day as all the sevens in Revelation, Seven mountains brought forth. New Earth being formed. all for the day of the cross. That is why there is also a "For ever and ever" or the day of the cross and everlasting future.

  2. AITB

    AITB <img src="http://www.mildenhall.net/imagemsc/bb128

    May 19, 2002
    Likes Received:
    Actually I agree with this and that's why it would not be 'sin' to be naked when there was no sin in people - but it's scary to be, if you have any sin.

    Therefore, that's why Adam and Eve were naked and unashamed before they sinned. Because they could be seen as they really were, because there was no sin to see.

    After they sinned they didn't want anyone to see the sin so they tried to cover up.

    It wasn't just the physical nakedness per se but the 'sin' that was exposed when they were seen as they really were, that embarrassed them and caused them to want to be covered.

    Just like we all try to hide our own sin all the time.

    Even though it's impossible to hide it from God, anyway. :eek:

    So, Star, I do not believe nakedness itself is a sin else Genesis 2 would not say that Adam and Eve were naked and unashamed. But, since mankind fell, perhaps nakedness now leads to unnecessary temptation among adults and so it's best not to be naked.

    Or something like that [​IMG]

    [ June 29, 2002, 07:50 AM: Message edited by: AITB ]
  3. Star

    Star New Member

    Mar 1, 2002
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    Exactly AITB, thats what I was trying to reconcile the nakedness before the disobedience. I was thinking it was the sin nature yet feeling no shame having it, at the same time reconciling this with the command not to eat from the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil (I consider the law) If they were commanded not to eat thereof God would have foreseen (if in fact it was the law) that sin itself is afforded by it and being it was The Law it is thus not of faith. Without faith its impossible to please God and the displeasure (adding my thought here) is felt by them (so to speak) that they are afraid of the Lord and hiding from the presence of God in the garden. So I'm trying to see the love of God in this picture before it was ever shown at the cross by carefully looking these things.

    This makes alot of other verses make sense as well, like "the fear of the Lord is the begining of wisdom" and I'm thinking this is what they both experienced in being afraid of the Lord. On the other hand knowing that nothing can separate you from the love of God, knowing that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us and seeing Gods love and grace, we begin to see that His perfect love for us casts out this fear and brings us back into fellowship with Him knowing this truth that sets us free from our fear of death... Just throwing in some thoughts as I ponder these things.

    I'm sure my thoughts will turn to this picture again and again as I grow in the grace and knowledge of God and these things get more refined in my understanding, but I'm enjoying the journey [​IMG]

    Ken, thank you for sharing because your posts are always filled with grace and I love you in Christ [​IMG]

    In Him Kim
  4. AITB

    AITB <img src="http://www.mildenhall.net/imagemsc/bb128

    May 19, 2002
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    Kim I just want to say that there are useful and not-useful kinds of fear. The kind of fear that led them to hide was not a good kind, imo. It is the kind that God's perfect love casts out (1 John 4) as we realize that He will forgive us when we repent. So we don't need to hide, full of guilt and shame. We can come out of hiding and let Him cover us, as He will, with the righteousness of Christ, if we ask.

    The kind of fear which is good, I think of as 'respect'. It's related to worship, in fact; because worship means recognizing someone's worth. Which we can't do unless we respect them. If we don't do what they ask, in situations when we know that we can trust that what they ask is good - such as with God - then we are not showing them much respect.

    I suppose you could also liken ok-fear to, I wouldn't stand under a tree in a thunderstorm :D . But I know I'm safe if I don't do that.

    When our fear of God gets in the way of our freedom in Christ then we are getting things out of balance, imo.

    AITB [​IMG]
  5. Star

    Star New Member

    Mar 1, 2002
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    Hi AITB [​IMG]

    Thanks for sharing that, I was wondering if Adam and Eve had a godly fear or not, maybe just the, "I'm guilty kind". Their reaction shows they knew they did something wrong but it also seems to imply they did not know a facet of God (Who is love) that they would be confident enough in that to run toward Him not from Him in a time such as this.

    I've read in scripture that "fear has to do with torment" almost like the "naked man" among the tombs who feared Jesus and who thought Jesus had come to torment Him when in fact Jesus set Him free from his chains, clothe him, and set him in his right mind. He does give us a "sound mind" and here its seen as true. It says he who fears is not made perfect in love, or there is no fear in love.

    But I see what your saying and I agree in that there is what is called a "fear" but is characterized by an awe or respect for God especially in our dealings with others both before them as well as in secret. I am made aware of my motives oftentimes and wrestle with those things in my heart in communicating with the Lord and thats very humbling.

    Have you ever had one of those David times where your indignant over the injustice of something and somehow God shows you that your the one guilty of it, you judged the injustice correctly as seen in anothers circumstances (not them personally) and your saying, "thats not right etc." and you end up being the one doing it yourself in the same situation just a bit different in regards to the scenery? I've had those times, what a worm I am. Thankfully He's a good God and realizes that sometimes we don't know or are even aware of the things we do as we grow in Him. He has a way of convicting His own without condemnation, or so its not felt as such.

    Now I'm rambling lol! But thanks for the response I agree with you.

    In Him Kim [​IMG]
  6. ken1burton

    ken1burton Guest

    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom.

    Wisdom is seeing the day of the cross as a house built using seven time periods. The fear is Jesus as the day begins at Sunset and He knows He has to take the sin of the World.

    (PROVERBS 9:1) Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars: (KJV)

    When Jesus willingly takes sin to fulfill the Scripture in Isaiah 53:6. His fear is knowing that it will seperate Him from God. Something that He never wants to do.

    (ISAIAH 53:6) All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. (KJV)

    As Jesus was given power to lay down His own life. God's placing on Jesus the iniquity of us all, which would cause Jesus to be spiritually dead, had to be allowed by Jesus.

    (HABAKKUK 1:13) Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he? (KJV)

    Habakkuk saw God not being able to look on Iniquity, which means look on Jesus when iniquity was placed on Jesus. He did not see Jesus with all sin meant all other men are innocent, Jesus has all sin. He did not see Jesus as the man of sin.

    The day of the cross as the man of sin, He sits upon the Throne of God, showing Himself to be God (Zechariah 12:8), Exaulting Himself above all that is CALLED CALLED CALLED God. Not that which really is God. And that which was being worshipped wrongly.

    The day of the cross Jesus is created AS GOD. Jesus is the House of David seen in Zechariah 12:8. Being dead part of the day makes Jesus also as the Angel of the Lord.

    Jesus is perfect in Beauty in the day He is created (AS GOD the day of the Cross) Till Iniquity is found in Him. Placed on Jesus by God as Isaiah 53:6 shows.

    One other thing about the Garden. Adam and Eve sewed together fig leaves for a covering, God clothed them in Animal skins (Just showing they are Humans. With Desires. Flesh and blood.)

    Things like lust seem awful sinfull in nature. But without such strong desires. many would never get married. God designed mankind to want others. To need others. To feel terrible alone. He also designed us to need Him. Thank God for a loving designer.

    Peter the day of the cross said He would not deny Jesus. More so then any of the others. His nakedness was showing the day of the cross as what was inside hidden, came outside and was seen clearly.

    (AMOS 2:16) And he that is courageous among the mighty shall flee away naked in that day, saith the Lord. (KJV)

    God doubles twice to establish His words, so things are often seen in many ways.

    (MARK 14:51) And there followed him a certain young man, having a linen cloth cast about his naked body; and the young men laid hold on him: (KJV)
    (MARK 14:52) And he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked. (KJV)

    Peter saying He will not deny Jesus is the Stout words of the Little Horn in Daniel. Jesus took Peter, James and John. The Little Horn replaced three horns, Now it is just Peter. Not three but one.

    God often magnifies the faults within us, which we have been so clearly seeing in others. They become so apparent that we see that we also are guilty (sin ended as accountable unto mankind) of being that way. Just God's way of teaching us to be more loving and less judgmental.

    We have a very loving God working with us daily. Don't forget, He is working with all the others also. God works in mysterious ways, His wonders to preform.

    His thoughts are not our thoughts. What makes you think all the thoughts that come into your head are your own?

    Ever notice yourself fighting against something that you need to correct in your life in your thought. Guess who got the conversation in you mind started? Maybe it was not yourself.

  7. ken1burton

    ken1burton Guest


    By the way. The one that let the cat out of the bag and told Adam He was naked was Isaiah. Jesus comes in the Volume of the Book. He knows it applied to Himself. He just had to figure out how it applied.

    (PSALMS 40:7) Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me, (KJV)

    (ISAIAH 20:2) At the same time spake the Lord by Isaiah the son of Amoz, saying, Go and loose the sackcloth from off thy loins, and put off thy shoe from thy foot. And he did so, walking naked and barefoot. (KJV)
    (ISAIAH 20:3) And the Lord said, Like as my servant Isaiah hath walked naked and barefoot three years for a sign and wonder upon Egypt and upon Ethiopia; (KJV)
    (ISAIAH 20:4) So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt. (KJV)

    King of Assyria. Jesus is King of Kings, He is King of Cleveland, King of detroit, King of Assyria.

    The day as 4 6-hour periods, as the first 4 burdens in Isaiah. Egypt being the fourth from noon to sunset. Damascus is the third. The Judgment from sunrise to noon. The third seal is the Black Horse. Like the Ethiopians skin.

    The captives is from "With His stripes we are healed" in the third time, and Jesus dying for future sins in the fourth time.

    The day as three pictures is 1=Egypt, 2=Israel, 3=Assyria. Jesus as the street gathers them out of all these places.

    (ISAIAH 11:16) And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt. (KJV)

    (ISAIAH 51:23) But I will put it into the hand of them that afflict thee; which have said to thy soul, Bow down, that we may go over: and thou hast laid thy body as the ground, and as the street, to them that went over . (KJV)

    Because the day of the cross is seen as three pictures. This has to be seen again, or the street has to be rebuilt. The 144 with Judas is the wall around Jesus which also has to be rebuilt. Those in hell around Jesus also seen as a wall.

    (DANIEL 9:25) Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. (KJV)

    Because the day has to be seen three times, as all is established by two or three witnesses. Third is bringing it to pass. so it can be seen as a witness also. so Jesus as the street has to be rebuilt in the next two pictures. This is to restore Jerusalem. Jesus is Jerusalem the Holy City in which we dwell.

    The day as 7 time periods is as Silver tried in the Fire. the day as three pictures is as Gold, so the street which shows up in the three pictures are paved with Gold.

    I get a bit cute when I tell people why the Streets in heaven are paved with Gold. As I make a gesture of taking off rings and casting them on the ground, and of taking off chains and casting them to the ground. They have no value there. So they litter the streets with them. [​IMG]

  8. Me2

    Me2 New Member

    Apr 16, 2002
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    Hello Star,
    You Seem To Want To Hold On To The Idea That The Tree of the knowledge of good and evil is the law...your completly Right..or Kinda (imo)
    I See The Tree of Knowledge.... as the Infinite Justice of God..Some other places you have seen ideas of this...The Left Hand Of God..
    But What We Forget Is The Tree Of Life...As Infinite Mercy..without it Adam Remains in Death.
    Theres That Right Hand of God Mentioned in The Bible....infinite Mercy
    Infinite Mercy and Infinite Justice of God Exists as Characteristics Of Gods Nature
    God Is Love..Yes..with Justice and Mercy Combined together..All In All

    OK..Adam Eats From The Tree of Infinite Justice....Soul That Sins....The Law
    God Says He's Become Like One Of Us... except...Without Infinite Mercy (Faith That God Is Mercy) he's Seperated through his own Choice.
    In This Case God Has Already Planned That Infinite Mercy Contain A Substitute Sacrifice That Is Greater Than All Of Creation Combined.
    ... Himself Dieing For Its Continued Existence in The Presence of A Holy God.

    Thus Planning To Combine Himself With His Creation Forever In Holiness..In Mankinds Case With The Addition Of Gods Knowledge of Good and Evil AND Mercy which is The Righteousness Of God Himself..The Very Character...Agape Love.

    Adam Was Innocent When He Ate Of The Tree. He Knew Justice but no Mercy..
    Fear Is Giving Power To What You Are Focusing at. (which you believe is greater than Gods Power...Love...or mercy)
    Adam Was Afraid..What Was His Gaze At..I Can Only Think Of Meeting The Judge..Time To Die.
    Time To Be Called To The Carpet.... And Admit To The Real God That You ARE an Imposter.....
    Adam "Believes" God Is without Mercy..He Imagines God as Something That God Is Not.

    Without the addition of mercy we all have a distorted view of Who Our God Is...
    Sometimes we faintly Use attribute towards God without understanding or accepting them...
    Its Called Grace...The Mercy Of God Towards Mankind..All Of It

    Adam Introduced Sin Into His Environment. Infinite Justice and Infinite Mercy Cannot Exist Forever with Sin Present.. Infinite Mercy Will Always Be Wanting To Forgive Infinitely and Infinite Justice Would Want to Judge Infinitely. Forever....

    God Had To Come To Earth, In The Form Of Man..Live A Sinless Life..Under The Existence of Infinite Justice AND Sin Already In The World. Under An Agreement That His Death Would Be The Representation 0f All Creation. With The Promise Of The Father, that He Would Raise This Man From The Dead.

    And He Agreed on Doing Just That In His Planning Of The Creation Before He Made Anything.

    So There...
    Me2 [​IMG]
  9. Star

    Star New Member

    Mar 1, 2002
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    Excellent post Me2! I might have had a question in there but lost it as I read, but I'm gonna copy this one and read it over again, thank you so much for this contribution! [​IMG] You always come out with uplifting thoughts from scripture... Gees, its REALLY refreshing!

    In Him Kim
  10. ken1burton

    ken1burton Guest

    Knowing the Law. allows you to know Good and Evil. Have an Apple [​IMG]

    Jesus said to "Swear not at all" but knowing the law which this is based on shows what this really is. Jesus ended the law at Calvary. This is a shadow or what God desire we do from out heart, of our own freewill. No reward or punishment involved.

    (LEVITICUS 5:4) Or if a soul swear, pronouncing with his lips to do evil, or to do good, whatsoever it be that a man shall pronounce with an oath, and it be hid from him; when he knoweth of it, then he shall be guilty in one of these. (KJV)
    (LEVITICUS 5:5) And it shall be, when he shall be guilty in one of these things, that he shall confess that he hath sinned in that thing: (KJV)

    Notice that the SIN is using an Oath. It does not matter if you are saying you will do good, or a oath to do evil. (I wonder what happened to those 40 men who made a oath not to eat or drink till they killed Paul?, bet they got real hungry.)

    An Oath, a promise, a pledge, a vow, even a statement like "I'll never speak to them again." all are wrong. This is what swear not at all is all about. For all these things bind a person. Usually with Pride. Jesus came that we might be free.

    Look how soon a child learns to bind a parent with "You promised!" This includes wedding vows also.

    God does not want you to say you will do this, or not do that. God wants you freely to do that which is right. Not because you vowed, or because you promised, or you pledged. But out of the freewill of your heart, do right.

    Leave the promises to God, He unlike mankind is able to perform what He has said.


    There is a lot of fruit on that tree. "Ask and it shall be given you." But, remember there is a Spirit of Asking. That spirit allows the one asked to say yes or no without feeling guilty.

    That is the law "ASK", Not "Let's make a deal and it shall be given to you.". Or "lay a guilt trip on God, and it shall be given to you."

  11. Me2

    Me2 New Member

    Apr 16, 2002
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    Hello Ken,
    I Tried To Understand Your Response About Isiah Telling Adam That He Was Naked...
    Do You Think You Could Walk It Through For Me...
    Seeing Isiah Is In Future Time..How Does This Info Get Back to Adam ?...

    Am i Reading This The Way You Intended ?
    You Got Some Great Insight..Im Enjoying Your Posts..Especially The Ones With Your Personal Opinions in Your Own Words

  12. ken1burton

    ken1burton Guest


    The Beginning in Genesis is a similitude. All similitudes are for the day of the cross as are all the prophecies.

    (ISAIAH 46:10) Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: (KJV)

    Jesus declares the end while He is hanging on a cross. "It is finished." The things of ancient times, like the creation story, Noah's ark, Sodom and Gomorrah. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Were similitudes God used to show what He would do. They were "Not yet done" at the time Isaiah wrote them down.

    God does not write a history book, He writes prophecies:

    (ISAIAH 42:9) Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them. (KJV)

    The Former (things used to form the creation story the day of the cross).

    Let there be Light is sunset to Midnight, as Jesus pours out the light. I am the true Vine, I am the good Shepherd, I am the Way the Truth and the Life, In My Father's house are many mansions, Etc.

    Moving the creation story to the day of the cross where it belongs, eliminates the 6,000 year old earth theory . Which was never true anyway.

    The day of the cross is as 1,000 years. Jesus is Adam "except I had come, you would not have sin."
    He is alive 930 years of this 1,000 year day, He is dead or desolate 70 years as the city Jerusalem. Jesus is also the New Jerusalem come down from God out of Heaven.

    The day as seven days, all the sevens in Revelation, the seven days of the creation story, the seven times that pass over Nebuchadnezzar when He is cast out. Etc.

    (ISAIAH 30:26) Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the Lord bindeth up the breach of his people , and healeth the stroke of their wound. (KJV)

    This can only apply to the day of the cross.

    The day is also seen as seven generations. so the seventh or ENOCH is taken to God.

    Jesus is Adam, The Jewish nation as Eve. To eat of the tree is to believe on the Son. "thou shalt not surely die." The Jewish nation DID come to belief. They returned early while Jesus was yet alive, and called Him both King and Chirst. When Jesus did not come down, they returned to unbelief.

    Look how they told Pilate to write, then look at the words they themselves used when speaking to Jesus:

    (JOHN 19:21) Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not, The King of the Jews ; but that he said, I am King of the Jews. (KJV)

    (MARK 15:32) Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross , that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him. (KJV)

    They did eat of the tree.

    The day of the cross is "For ever" a day taken out of time. Jesus has to die this day so He can not eat of the tree of life (not allow Himself to die) and live for ever. "for ever and ever" is the day of the cross and everlasting future after the day.

    The Second generation is Jesus as Cain, The Jewish nation as Abel. Abel offers the Lamb or Christ. Cain or Jesus slays His brother. When Jesus said "No man cometh unto the Father but by Me." they were spiritually slain.

    Mark the Perfect man. So Jesus or cain gets the mark. A Lamb is a four footed animal. a Beast of the field. God uses that which is despised.

    (PSALMS 78:34) When he slew them, then they sought him: and they returned and inquired early after God. (KJV)

    "Returned early" is to the cross while Jesus is yet alive.

    Jesus is all things cursed. He is Sodom and Gomorrah being destroyed. Lot's wife is the Jewish nation. Looks back to God's law. Salt is for a sacrifice. 2,000 years of sleep from the cross in 29 ad to 2029 ad when the nation of Israel will awaken and see that Jesus is the Messiah the Scriptures shows.

    (JOSHUA 3:3) And they commanded the people, saying, When ye see the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, and the priests the Levites bearing it, then ye shall remove from your place, and go after it. (KJV)
    (JOSHUA 3:4) Yet there shall be a space between you and it, about two thousand cubits by measure: come not near unto it, that ye may know the way by which ye must go: for ye have not passed this way heretofore. (KJV)

    Jesus is the Ark, They would see the Levites or the Priest lift up Jesus at Calvary in 29 ad, Stay back 2,000 cubits (years) till 2029 ad.

    (AMOS 3:7) Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. (KJV)

    God always shows it before it happens.

  13. Me2

    Me2 New Member

    Apr 16, 2002
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    Hello Ken,

    First Of All...Thank You !...I Think Im Finally Catching On!!!

    Prophetic Similtudes..

    Dont Laugh...Im Rambling

    Is Jesus In Death, looking through Adams Eyes, Viewing His Nakedness, and Attempting to Remember isaiah Prophecies... ?

    So Does God Looks At Time As One Day Taken Out Of Eternity ?

    ....or could we say When Jesus Was In Death... That Day Had to be Taken out of eternity ?

    and All History of Mankind is Tucked Into Jesus Life and death..within That Day ?

    ...or Have We Never Left Eternity..Prophetically Always Having Been In Jesus ?

    Dont Laugh or get upset..This is My Brain..sometimes i have to warm it up first
    I Really want to Understand This..as I would Many Things You Speak Of..

    Me2 [​IMG]
  14. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Oct 7, 2000
    Likes Received:
    So all of Genesis is prophetic similitude?

    Or only part of it? Which part(s)?
  15. Star

    Star New Member

    Mar 1, 2002
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    Dont Laugh or get upset..This is My Brain..sometimes i have to warm it up first

    lol! I must say I relate to you Me2! After all these years I still need warm ups lol! Especially superimposing what I thought was in the past (of which I thought was "the reality") and needed to see it in the present, or its True Reality In Christ, or at the foot of The Cross, of which the "volume of the book" speaks.

    Can't say I understand it all, but following this in the direction its leading me I find "brain warm ups" essential lol! I suppose one could say the shadow is swallowed up in the reality (or victory) of Jesus Christ, I personally can't wait to "see" all things summed up In Him. As for now I believe I understand (and hope to moreso) why its important to determine to know nothing except Christ and Him crucified both the power and Wisdom of God, Amen?

    Ken, and "thank you" I too appreciate your posts and what seemed like a foreign perspective that I have grown to really find great blessing in. Thanking God too, Who has helped me to "hang in there" with you for awhile so that I could get even a better glimspe of the work of God through Jesus Christ.

    You both are refreshing in Christ in two very different ways [​IMG]

    In Him Kim
  16. ken1burton

    ken1burton Guest


    First let's get time straightened out. Time is Endless in both directions, You can go a million, a billion years into the past, you will never come to a beginning. The same with the Future. Go a million years or a billion years into the future you will never come to a end of time.

    God takes one physical 24 hour day out of time. This creates an Ending and Starts a Beginning. This day is what I refer to as the day of the cross. Starting at Sunset when the Last Supper began. Ending at Sunset as Jesus was just placed in the Sepulchre.

    This is how God can use the words "From Everlasting to everlasting" or from everlasting past, to everlasting future. Which refers to the day of the cross which is between these two everlastings.

    This space between two everlastings is called "For ever", "For ever and ever" then is the day of the cross and Everlasting future. Everlasting future is also referred to as "Ever more"

    Here is how God removed the day with the Scriptures.

    The day of the cross is the Birth of the Body of Christ, or us in Christ. Jesus is made all things cursed, He is even the earth. God scatters (all forsake Jesus) then God gathers (REPLENISHES the Earth.)

    The Body of Christ BORN the day of the cross:
    (PSALMS 2:6) Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. (KJV)
    (PSALMS 2:7) I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my son; this day have I begotten thee. (KJV)

    The Day of the Cross as His Birth taken out of endless time, creating a ending and a beginning:
    (JOB 3:3) Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived. (KJV)
    (JOB 3:4) Let that day be darkness; let not God regard it from above, neither let the light shine upon it. (KJV)
    (JOB 3:5) Let darkness and the shadow of death stain it; let a cloud dwell upon it; let the blackness of the day terrify it. (KJV)
    (JOB 3:6) As for that night, let darkness seize upon it; let it not be joined unto the days of the year, let it not come into the number of the months. (KJV)

    The day is as darkness or has to be searched out to see the light there. Clouds seen as sin in Isaiah 44:22.

    (AMOS 5:18) Woe unto you that desire the day of the Lord! to what end is it for you? the day of the Lord is darkness, and not light. (KJV)

    Taking the day of the cross out of time breaks the covenant with the Levites or ends the Priesthood. The priests seen as stones cast down, as a temple destroyed, and in three days (day seen as 3 pictures, Jesus raises another. This also breaks the covenant with David as Jesus has to die and go into hell, so He does not have a Son to reign part of this day as this takes place.

    Jesus is David's physical son, raised to be the Son of God as God said and swore in His Holiness not to alter those words. Promise is 2-Samuel 7:11/14 and God swearing in His Holiness is Psalms 89:34/36

    (JEREMIAH 33:20) Thus saith the Lord; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season; (KJV)
    (JEREMIAH 33:21) Then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne; and with the Levites the priests, my ministers. (KJV)

    The Priests as stones cast down, as the Stones that would cry out if the Disciples held their peace, which they did the day of the cross. The Stones cried out "Crucify Him!" Jesus taking sin, Sin had to belong to Jesus to fulfill the law in Deuteronomy 24:16 "Every man shall be put to death for His OWN SIN." Many points of the law required the sinner to be STONED, this is how God fulfilled the law.

    As the day of the cross is taken out of time, it is then a space, So God can view it as a day, as a week, as 1,000 years, As any time period God needed to fulfill Scripture.

    Here as the 7 days of the Creation story, and all the sevens in the book of Revelation:
    (ISAIAH 30:26) Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the Lord bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound. (KJV)

    Here as 2,000 years:
    (PSALMS 90:4) For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. (KJV)

    (DANIEL 8:26) And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days. (KJV)

    So in Genesis, the Evening and morning were the First day. The Evening and the Morning were the Second day, the Evening and the Morning were the Third day. Same Evening and morning seen as 7 days.

    God establishes His words by showing it as three pictures. Same day seen three different ways. As Two or Three witnesses. The third witness is bringing it to pass. Always written as (2 or 3)

    First picture is the day as 4 6-hour periods, seen as 4 beasts with 6-wings in Revelation.
    Second picture as 2 12-hour periods, seen as 2 witnesses in Revelation.
    Third picture is as 1 24-hour period as 24 Elders in Revelation.
    John is in the Spirit on the "Lord's day" or at the day of the cross.
    Sunset to Midnight is the First day. Let there be Light. I am the True Vine, I am the Good Shepherd, I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, In My Father's House are many mansions, Etc as Jesus pours out the light.

    The First seal is the White horse. White horse coming in clouds is Jesus with the sin of the world. Sin seen as clouds in Isaiah 44:22. Jesus said He would go and prepare a place for them. Now Jesus has to go and do it, so the Rider on the White horse goes forth conquering and to conquer.

    Midnight to Sunrise is the Second day. Waters are people, Divided above and below Jesus as the Firmament. Disciples flee as Islands. 144 with Judas, seen as a wall in Revelation 21:17 are the waters above Jesus. Sinners as the waters below Jesus. (Still waters are the dead)

    Second seal is the red horse. Second beast with 6-wings has a face like a Calf. Together seen as a Red heifer. Jesus is the head of the first time period, He is Beheaded or no longer above, God's word like as a fire, As the Ashes of the red heifer are created by God's word to cleans the house.

    Third day is Sunrise to noon. Waters gathered together. "With His stripes we are healed." Jesus taking sin at Midnight resulted in Him spiritually dead, or as in hell, separated from God, which will be seen in FUTURE SIMILITUDE in the Second physical day. "With His stripes we are healed resulted in Jesus and us in Him being spiritually alive, or RESURRECTED. FUTURE SIMILITUDE seen on the Third physical day. All of God's words are fulfilled the day of the cross seen as 3 pictures. All within one 24 hour period as we know them.

    Taking that day out of time, resulted in all days moved one ahead. The Sabbath in God's eyes now falls on the day we call Sunday. Good Friday 29 ad, was a day never to be counted.

    The third seal is the Black Horse with the balances, The Judgment of Christ. A penny was a day's wages, so a measure of wheat for a penny, or the day seen as one day, or three measures of barley for a penny, the day seen as three pictures.

    Third angel sounds in Revelation and the Star wormwood falls. Stars were for a sign, this is a sign of the Judgment falling on Jesus (the earth)

    (AMOS 5:7) Ye who turn judgment to wormwood, and leave off righteousness in the earth, (KJV)

    Fourth day is noon to sunset. This is also the Good ground in the sower parable. Know one parable, and you know them all, they are all for the day of the cross. 4 grounds is as 4 6-hour periods, Disciples as seeds which fell in the first 6-hours or by the wayside. The day as 3 pictures brings forth 30 fold, 60 fold, 100 fold.

    Fourth seal is the Pale Horse, Death followed by hell, as Jesus dies and descends into hell. Fourth day in Genesis, God creates two great lights. Sun seen as the throne in Psalms 89:36. Darkened by His death, they think it is the end. Moon seen as the establishment of the throne in Psalms 89:37. Turned to blood as the blood of Christ establishes the throne, and this day is FOR EVER when it is established.

    (2SAMUEL 7:13) He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. (KJV)

    ESTABLISHED the day of the cross, Established in a day called "FOR EVER"

    The day as a house built. Made as 7 time periods:
    (PROVERBS 9:1) Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars: (KJV)

    The name of the House is the "WILDERNESS" where Jesus was taken to to be tempted, taken to the day of the cross, then given 42 months to continue or three years and a half:
    (JOB 39:6) Whose house I have made the wilderness, and the barren land his dwellings. (KJV)

    Time=Creation story in 3975 bc to the baptism in 25 ad=4,000 years. "At the ending of time God sent forth His Son made of a woman." or at the baptism.
    Times=day of the cross seen as 2,000 years in Ecc 6:6 and Psalms 90:4
    Dividing of time, or half a time =is the cross in 29 ad till 2029 ad when the nation of Israel will see Jesus in Scripture is the Messiah and follow Him, the time Israel awakens.

    Christ's three and a half years not counted, seen as NOTHING in Scripture.

    The Nation of Israel was to follow the Ark, They saw the Ark at a place called Golgotha lifted up by the Priests. They were to wait 2,000 years (cubits) and then follow. 29 ad +2,000 years=2029 ad. Here is one of the similitudes, there are others for this date.

    (JOSHUA 3:3) And they commanded the people, saying, """When ye see the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, and the priests the Levites bearing it""", then ye shall remove from your place, and go after it. (KJV)
    (JOSHUA 3:4) Yet there shall be a space between you and it, about two thousand cubits by measure: come not near unto it, that ye may know the way by which ye must go: for ye have not passed this way heretofore. (KJV)

    Wait 2,000 years after Calvary then follow Jesus. This is also likened to the Waters covering the sea. Or the Living waters covering the nation of Israel with the people as waters.

    (ISAIAH 11:9) They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea. (KJV) =2029 ad

    Similitude in Ezekiel for 2029 ad, Israel will see Jesus is the Christ, then most of the World will see Jesus is the Christ: This is at the 4,000 cubit measurement of the Waters (Let tears run down as a river) the day of the cross as 2,000 years, then the dividing or half a time as 2,000 years.

    (EZEKIEL 47:8) Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed. (KJV)
    (EZEKIEL 47:9) And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh. (KJV)
    (EZEKIEL 47:10) And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many. (KJV)

    Fishers of Men, Your nets are not big enough. Most of the World will come to know Christ. But in TRUTH. A few holdouts so we do not put away our Bibles.

    (EZEKIEL 47:11) But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt. (KJV)

    Salt being for a Sacrifice from seeing, Israel is Lot's wife, a sacrifice from seeing till 2029 ad, a pillar of salt. She looked back, Didn't follow Lot (Jesus)

    Most of the stories in Genesis are Similitudes, they did not happen then. They are for the day of the cross. Jesus is the ARK, the People are as waters, the Waters lift up the Ark. That is why Noah's Ark is "THREE STORIES". That is why Noah and the animals are in the Ark, The waters of the flood are upon the earth, and in the SELFSAME day, God now loads the people and animals in the Ark (they were already there). But this time it shows GOD SHUT THEM IN. As the Second picture for the day of the cross is Jesus in hell or shut in.

    FIRST story:
    (GENESIS 7:9) There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah. (KJV)
    (GENESIS 7:12) And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights. (KJV)

    SECOND story:
    (GENESIS 7:13) In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark; (KJV)
    (GENESIS 7:15) And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life. (KJV)

    And the day of the cross God brings this to pass, which is as the Third witness. And the THIRD story of the ARK.

    (2SAMUEL 22:5) When the waves of death compassed me, the floods of ungodly men made me afraid; (KJV)
    (PSALMS 98:8) Let the floods clap their hands: let the hills be joyful together (KJV)
    (PSALMS 29:10) The Lord sitteth upon the flood; yea, the Lord sitteth king for ever. (KJV)
    (REVELATION 17:1) And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: (KJV)

    For a Jew to make a marriage or reach for a non-Jew was whoredom, God uses that which is despised. Jesus reached for the whole world, Jew and non-Jew alike This is the Parable of building bigger barns, Not just the lost sheep of the house of Israel but reach for the whole world.

    Eternity starts when a person is conceived, THEN you are written in the Lamb's book of Life, then you are immersed into God's word like as a fire which saves us all by grace, The lake of fire is to be immersed in God's word, death and hell were immersed in God's word the day of the cross as they became truth.

    All the prophecies are LIES (similitude) UNTIL they are fulfilled. Here is the Similitude: God wants Jesus to go up and die at Calvary to fulfill the Scriptures, so they are as lies till He does it.

    (1KINGS 22:20) And the Lord said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. (KJV)
    (1KINGS 22:21) And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the Lord, and said, I will persuade him. (KJV)
    (1KINGS 22:22) And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. (KJV)
    (1KINGS 22:23) Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee. (KJV)

    Do you understand "Father of lies" yet? Do you see why the Lord Hisses in Isaiah 7:18, Why Jesus likened Himself to a Serpent on a pole in John 3:14? Why the Lord devours like a Lion in Hosea 13:8? Why He is roaring in Psalms 22:1? Why He is in Adversity when the people are gathered together in Psalms 35:15? Do you understand that to take the sin of the World you also have to have "Great Wrath"? And Jesus had to allow Himself to be taken (come down unto you) and why Jesus having great wrath knew He had but a short time? The cross was waiting.

    The Entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation is tucked into the day of the cross, when all is fulfilled. There were similitudes, and dreams and visions and prophecies before the day, and there are Future similitudes after the day. But everything was fulfilled and made TRUTH the day of the cross.

    (LUKE 18:31) Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. (KJV)


    Most of the things in Genesis are done the day of the cross. They are the ANCIENT things that are not yet done in Isaiah 46:10.

    (ISAIAH 46:10) Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: (KJV)

    The day of the cross as 4 6-hour periods and as 4 different names. This day is "For Ever"
    1=Lord God of our Fathers, or Jesus made as God by God almighty.
    2=God of Abraham. Horror of great darkness is as Jesus takes sin at Midnight
    3=God of Isaac.
    4=God of Jacob. Time of Jacob's trouble is noon to Sunset for Jesus.

    (EXODUS 3:15) And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. (KJV)
    THIS IS MY NAME FOR EVER or the day of the Cross.

    Now Abraham and Jacob might have been real people, the Children in Egypt might have been descendants from them. They are not the ones seen in the Stories, those are similitudes.

    (ISAIAH 63:16) Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O Lord, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting. (KJV)

    Abraham and Israel do not know anything about those stories as far as having lived them.

    I think God sent Moses to a bunch of Slaves in Egypt and started the ball rolling there. He gave them a background.

    The day of the cross is as 1,000 years, as 7 days and as 3 pictures each as a day, as Tribulation ten days. Each as 100 years, so at the end of 400 years (4 6-hour periods) God brings them out of Egypt, the day of the cross as 3 pictures is 1=Egypt, 2=Israel, 3=Assyria.

    The day as 10 days, or time periods, the day as 10 Lepers. But we only see one to give Glory to God, WHERE ARE THE NINE?

    (LUKE 17:17) And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine? (KJV)

    All the prophecies as lies or as unclean till fulfilled, that is why there is a parable of 7 unclean spirits, and of the three unclean spirits like frogs. Gather to The great battle of God almighty, Armageddon is Calvary, "It is finished" is "It is done" at Armageddon. The Earthquake seen at both, the city divided into three parts is the day into 3 pictures.

    My keyboard runneth over. Or was it just a drop out of the bucket?

  17. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Oct 7, 2000
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    I think we'll have to disagree, Ken ol' boy.
    In and from the beginning, God declared the end.

    In and from ancient times, God declared the things that are not yet done.

    Genesis is the beginning that declares the end. Genesis is the ancient time, and the things in Genesis that are declared have not--in Isaiah's time--come to pass yet.

    The things declared have not come to pass yet, not the actual events depicted in Genesis. There's a difference.

    Abraham's willingness to sacrifice Isaac, for instance, and God's providing of a ram to take Isaac's place is a declaration of things to come--but the event itself is the ancient time in which that declaration was made.

    This might be what you were trying to say, but you should really work on making yourself clearer.
  18. ken1burton

    ken1burton Guest


    Abraham takes Isaac to offer Him in the Old Testament. or Jewish Scriptures. In the Quran, Abraham takes Ishmael. Had God also written to women feminist, Abraham might have taken Sarah (or would Sarah have taken Abraham for a offering?)

    Either way, they are all similitudes. Not contridictions. What it really is, is offering what you love. To the Jews it was Isaac, to the Moslems it was Ishmael. and to Jesus the day of the cross it is the Disciples.

    Jesus came to the House of Israel. The House of Israel did not receive Jesus. The day of the cross, Jesus is leaving the house and the Disciples are the Dust that clingeth to His feet. They have to be shaken off, or offered as God commanded.

    (MATTHEW 10:14) And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. (KJV)

    Don, as far as speaking clearer. Moses and I have the same problem.

    (EXODUS 4:10) And Moses said unto the Lord, O my Lord, I am not eloquent, neither heretofore, nor since thou hast spoken unto thy servant: but I am slow of speech, and of a slow tongue. (KJV)
    (EXODUS 4:11) And the Lord said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the Lord? (KJV)

    If you wish, you can ask God to use a english professor. Better yet, Command God to use a english professor.

    (ISAIAH 45:11) Thus saith the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me. (KJV)

  19. Star

    Star New Member

    Mar 1, 2002
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    I was thinking on this too Don as I have brain freeze from overload yet still a geniune fascination with these things.

    Is this at all relevant? I don't know really...

    Dan 7:22 Until the Ancient of days CAME, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

    Thats strange?

    Ancient of days Came? Then this can't be talking about what is behind or in the past if here is where "it" came??? See what I'm saying? I'd be interested in what Ken has to say as well.

    So you can imagine what my mind is doing, somewhat resembles watching a ping pong match trying to discover the end from the begining or the begining from the end :confused: ;)

    Standing back observing the conversation right now :D

    In Him Kim
  20. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Oct 7, 2000
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    Actually, that's not that confusing. It's talking about that which is in the past, coming forth.

    Remember, the passage where this is found is talking about future events.

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    In other words, from the beginning = time past = ancient. The passage in Daniel is talking about (predicting) the return of Christ.

    Some would even go so far as to say, predicting the second coming, taking into context what's being talked about in Daniel 7.